I really don't get the hate that some have for Mario 64's older handling and camera. Now maybe if I had played more modern stuff I'd feel it - but I find it's fine. I still really like it and will boot it up from time to time. Galaxy is better though - of course it is. Most of Galaxy's shines aren't that challenging - it's more about the entertainment value. I remember it being head spinning - clearing shine after shine and I had to stop myself from playing at times to ration it out......but there are a few stinkers - there was a purple coin level with disappearing floor tiles? I think that was the 120th one I got.

SMW felt like a backwards step from SMB3 initially. It felt smaller (it is - it has less levels). There are less suits as well but a lot of those were throwaway - the frog suit, the hammer bros suit, the Goomba boot etc were one offs. 

The more you play it the more you see that SMW is far, far more refined. You get the spin jump and Yoshi and those two additions really add quite a bit to the game. I prefer SMB3's Tanooki suit to SMW's cloak but everything else was a an improvement on SMB3.  SMW's map is a work of art in itself - and the branching level paths with the hidden exits are implemented in a far better way than they are in SMB3 that just offers alternate paths on some world maps.

I really don't think SMW will be topped. It would require a huge effort from Nintendo that wouldn't make a financial return so we really won't see its like again.  The "New" series of games are quite different but are solid - I really liked the Wii game in 1P but it's a different series of games and feels quite different.

Having a chin scratch about Sunshine, my memories of it are largely that it's a great game most of the time, but it does have some of Nintendo's absolute nadir in it - specifcally: Sand Bird, Secret Pachinko, Secret Tossing Mario, and Secret Leaf Boat - all four of those levels are disastrous, and two of them are awful because getting to them is a chore, and failing them gets you booted right back to the start of a nightmare path to get back into them. Hateful design.

Came across Secret Pachinko for the first time, in fact. The last coin just wasn't happening. Quit in a huff. Stupid game.

Tempy wrote:

Having a chin scratch about Sunshine, my memories of it are largely that it's a great game most of the time, but it does have some of Nintendo's absolute nadir in it - specifcally: Sand Bird, Secret Pachinko, Secret Tossing Mario, and Secret Leaf Boat - all four of those levels are disastrous, and two of them are awful because getting to them is a chore, and failing them gets you booted right back to the start of a nightmare path to get back into them. Hateful design.

That's what a lot of my Sunshine memories entail.

That and being genuinely gutted at the lack of the back flip and long jump.

Yeah, they're the best of the game imo.

I'd love a game of just a hundred or so of those, in the same way the Captain Toad levels in 3D World spawned it's own game.

Played some more and shockingly SM64 has gone way, way down in my (over-inflated by time % memory) estimations. Sunshine remains a mixed bag (wtf are those long nosed freaks, + Tempy white knights it + F.L.U.D.D. the mechanical abomination). Still a great game by any other devs yardstick.

Yeah gotta agree.

Being a bad Mario doesn't mean it's a bad game at all. Sunshine is still very good, from what I've played I'm thinking 8/10. Its just that many of the others are 9s and 10s.

Ah I was about to post that I remember the Edge review! They ended with some negativity but I think said “it’s the second best platformer ever. Celebrate that” or something. Basically, it might not be the best, but it’s still second best (at that time).

I absolutely adore the delfina island tune - I think that and the music from the worlds without flood are may absolute favourite Mario tunes.  Can't get them outta my head.  There a lot to like in Sunshine but i still haven't completely unlearned the 15 years of right stick moves aim and i'm finding the shooting the water thing really tricky.

Also odd that in 64 they changed little things like 'Press Start' To 'Press +', yet in Sunshine the X Button by the Flied is still the kidney shape from the GCN version.

They've really messed uo the cutscenes in Sunshine too.  It's like a horrible hybrid of zooming in AND stretching the image to fit the new ratio.  Worst of both worlds, yeah!

That DF retro praised the cut scenes, odd that they missed that, they're usually spot on.

In other Mario news, Tilly has started making levels for me in Mario Maker 2 that aren't trollface unpossible. It's in with a shout for best game ever surely.

You’re going to be dead by then. Nintendo are too lean to put too much resource in old games.