Techy Gubbins
  • Aye, torching an entire codebase, as tempting as it may be, is often a tipping point to obsolescence as progress then stalls and dries up. Best to keep stuff working - don't fix it if it ain't broke - and only tackle segments if they flag up in the profile or if it's accreted too much cruft and needs splitting to seperate components.
  • dynamiteReady
    Show networks
    Steam
    dynamiteready

    Send message
    @Ace

    Joel Splosky's blog is pretty cool. There's a compendium of his more famous blog posts out there, and it's an awesome read. It's undoubtedly web focussed, but the advice is brilliant.

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Joel-Software-Occasionally-Interest-Ill-Luck/dp/1590593898

    I hear that the Mythical Man Month is also good for that kind of advice, but I've not yet got round to it.
    "I didn't get it. BUUUUUUUUUUUT, you fucking do your thing." - Roujin
    Ninty Code: SW-7904-0771-0996
  • dynamiteReady
    Show networks
    Steam
    dynamiteready

    Send message
    djchump wrote:
    Aye, torching an entire codebase, as tempting as it may be, is often a tipping point to obsolescence as progress then stalls and dries up. Best to keep stuff working - don't fix it if it ain't broke - and only tackle segments if they flag up in the profile or if it's accreted too much cruft and needs splitting to seperate components.

    Games are a funny one, I imagine...

    I only have a hobbyist's experience in this sense, but alway remembered reading Gabe Newell's remarks on how much different working on HL1 was to working on HL2, where the development work was far better structured, and how work on the Source engine became the most important priority...

    Kojima was also recently talking about how Japanese codeshops, until very recently, favoured a more artistic approach to games development, and suggested that it wasn't uncommon to throw almost unquantifiable units of time into the smallest elements of a given design.

    A wise man once told me that this is a trait common to Japanese and German engineering. And that would figure...
    "I didn't get it. BUUUUUUUUUUUT, you fucking do your thing." - Roujin
    Ninty Code: SW-7904-0771-0996
  • That blog from Muzzy was great, and possibly the only thing ive ever read that made me feel slightly better about my code (or my entire approach to everything like that which is use as much as possible i already know works fine even if its messy)

    Like Dynamite, pure hobbyist perspective here but applied to games it does make sense the increasing use of solid game engines (Quick question, i hate calling them game engines mainly cause i hate the word 'game' to refer to the medium, i call it middleware instead. What is it meant to be called?) over the years. This exact process could be responsible for what Unity likes to call democratisation of games development, strong bases for developing gamesy things making it increasingly accessible to the less skilled in esoteric arts. I cant tell if i'm being tangential there but eh

    And Dynamite, after co-foundering the main photo chatroom on deviantart for 6 years i got to see a lot of the attitude you described in some world reknown japanese camera design, and funny enough some world reknown german lens design

    I never was that great at photography though, just absorbed a lot from the chatter
  • acemuzzy
    Show networks
    PSN
    Acemuzzy
    Steam
    Acemuzzy (aka murray200)
    Wii
    3DS - 4613-7291-1486

    Send message
    @Ace Joel Splosky's blog is pretty cool. There's a compendium of his more famous blog posts out there, and it's an awesome read. It's undoubtedly web focussed, but the advice is brilliant. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Joel-Software-Occasionally-Interest-Ill-Luck/dp/1590593898 I hear that the Mythical Man Month is also good for that kind of advice, but I've not yet got round to it.

    Whoop work just agreed to buy that book for me to read :-)
  • Engine is the correct term, Gunn. Middleware can include an engine, but it's much wider and usually features workflow stuff.
  • AJ wrote:
    Engine is the correct term, Gunn. Middleware can include an engine, but it's much wider and usually features workflow stuff.

    Well, i knew it was under the umbrella of middleware so that worked out for me. It's just 'games engine' sounds so childish given what this software can do that doesn't have a hint of game in it
  • dynamiteReady
    Show networks
    Steam
    dynamiteready

    Send message
    djchump wrote:
    accreted...

    WORD OF THE DAY.
    "I didn't get it. BUUUUUUUUUUUT, you fucking do your thing." - Roujin
    Ninty Code: SW-7904-0771-0996
  • i think teddybear was the word of the day but now im just filling the thread with non technologies

    somethings been getting me thinking is the new poser-like superconfigurable avatar things called UMA on Unity (Was private but Unity funded it to conclusion).

    http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/219175-UMA-Unity-Multipurpose-Avatar-on-the-Asset-Store!

    how much do you think these prebaked but configurable models will contribute to not just games but by reflection on Muzzys posted blog, anything using instantly desirable and recognisable figures. Needn't be  human, just have versatility to fit any role. And it's whole idea was constantly being updated with 3rd party (or your own) touches

    It's initially a bit Posery (Ive used models from poser before for rendering stills but the program itself seems to be merely a dolls house for children and creepy old men) but its fully integrated with an engine and faceshift is supported by unity, i'm assuming tressfx at some point. Wonder if much of this kind of thing becomes part of authoring software distribution (Maybe just a taster in Unity's standard assets stuff), or made available by recognised integrated methods

    And I wonder why more widespread technologies in related fields dont have that integration for another matter
  • LazyGunn wrote:
    It's just 'games engine' sounds so childish given what this software can do that doesn't have a hint of game in it

    I've heard some (possibly a little up their own arse) engine developers call them world engines. Anyway, so long as there's some context, there's nothing wrong with dropping the "games" prefix. Not that game is technically a childish term, of course; take game theory, for instance.
  • So, these UMAs, they're basically Miis or Avatars with less charm and character?
  • You can say they're ostensibly an avatar system but i see them as being used en masse to people a game world, you can do allsorts to their physical form, put them in relevant clothing, if you dont like the textures replace it with your own, smoosh it about in zbrush etc. Basically a freely available humanoid creator with a load of options there already and if you want to take it further, smoosh it up wit your art skills. It's an interesting thing when you look at games when theyre set in very familiar situations like a city or a sports field or the sky, and its pretty hard to provide content for this stuff quickly. It can be a pain in the arse to get clouds in unity, nevermind streets bustling with unique characters and varieties of cars filling the roads. Indie development stalls when it goes big cause no things to fill the space, and stuff like this seems to offer an option to get round it.

    There's an api, you can generate them on the move, if you want a main character youve got their figure filled in, for free, take it out to faff in mudbox and mari. (even if you have to export as objs and rig and skin again). Unity indie dev also relies on highquality generic collections of objects and vegetation and wotnot to simulate having a team of artists working for you

    But that was a mega tangent, no, theyre free ways to get characters (humanoids) into your games, associated tools and 3rd party accessories already trickling in. Wonder if this sort of thing would come common practice
  • AJ wrote:
    LazyGunn wrote:
    It's just 'games engine' sounds so childish given what this software can do that doesn't have a hint of game in it
    I've heard some (possibly a little up their own arse) engine developers call them world engines. Anyway, so long as there's some context, there's nothing wrong with dropping the "games" prefix. Not that game is technically a childish term, of course; take game theory, for instance.

    And this, i just googled game theory and quite liked that, thats what i'll think when i say or think game engine
  • Blue Swirl
    Show networks
    Facebook
    Fuck Mugtome
    Twitter
    BlueSwirl
    Xbox
    Blue5wirl
    PSN
    BlueSwirl
    Steam
    BlueSwirl
    Wii
    3DS: 0602-6557-8477, Wii U: BlueSwirl

    Send message
    Didn't know whether to put this here or in the other tech thread, but the other feels more like a tech support place than a general news thread, so, er, yeah. Here it is.

    HP brings back Windows 7
    if you browse to HP's home section and navigate to desktop PCs then you’ll only be presented with Windows 7 machines by default as no Windows 8 PCs are listed until you start customizing the section using optional filters.

    ...
    HP’s "back by popular demand" wording is a clear knock towards Windows 8 which has struggled with perception issues thanks to what some see as a confusing mix of desktop and tablet-style computing.

    ...
    HP is the first PC maker to take advantage of Windows 7 as a selling point over Windows 8, and it follows similar moves from OEMs who chose to promote Windows XP over Windows Vista years ago.

    While 8 is no where near as bad as Vista, I think it's been a hard sell for Microsoft. I wonder if any other OEMs will follow suit and offer more 7 equipped hardware.
    For those with an open mind, wonders always await! - Kilton (monster enthusiast)
  • Blue Swirl
    Show networks
    Facebook
    Fuck Mugtome
    Twitter
    BlueSwirl
    Xbox
    Blue5wirl
    PSN
    BlueSwirl
    Steam
    BlueSwirl
    Wii
    3DS: 0602-6557-8477, Wii U: BlueSwirl

    Send message
    I will admit, though, if I were going to get a Windows machine now, I'd probably get the 8 equipped Lenovo Yoga 2. In orange.
    For those with an open mind, wonders always await! - Kilton (monster enthusiast)
  • I don't mind Windows 8, but then I've got a touchscreen laptop and really fucking hate all the bevelling on 7. There's some real big issues with it though, no doubt. I'm expecting the next version to be pretty decent.

    Also, that is the longest way of saying "yes, but with shit-loads more options" I've seen, Gunn. :p

    They do all look at tad ugly, but I guess that's to be expected and a reasonable trade off.
  • AJ wrote:
    I don't mind Windows 8, but then I've got a touchscreen laptop and really fucking hate all the bevelling on 7. There's some real big issues with it though, no doubt. I'm expecting the next version to be pretty decent. Also, that is the longest way of saying "yes, but with shit-loads more options" I've seen, Gunn. :p They do all look at tad ugly, but I guess that's to be expected and a reasonable trade off.

    I am getting a bit of a name for overwordiness i guess but I don't want to assume everone shares the same insight into what can be done. Like saying theyre like miis or xbox avas is completely erroneous so there! And worth, i felt, giving examples of how they can be altered to suit a specific game's overall art direction
  • dynamiteReady
    Show networks
    Steam
    dynamiteready

    Send message
    Just realised that I understand less about Mantle than I originally thought.
    I was thinking that Mantle allows a programmer to open a graphics context that the GPU has full responsibility for...

    It does, but I also thought that this 'special' context will accept OpenGL commands (or even Direct X as an alternative). It doesn't...

    It introduces a completely new language, is that right Chump?
    "I didn't get it. BUUUUUUUUUUUT, you fucking do your thing." - Roujin
    Ninty Code: SW-7904-0771-0996
  • It's a completely different API to OpenGL and DirectX - you choose one or the other.
  • What he said, the point of it being that it gives programmers much closer access 'to the metal' as it were, ideally for the good although it allows for the bad too, but its strength is that it cuts out the overhead usually associated with existing apis giving strong performance gains to anything that uses it - technically moving a pc game, typically behind consoles and their graphics performance on equivalent hardware, right alongside consoles, negating much from a development point of view much of the drawbacks of developing for a pc, a piece of high performance software (which a videogame usually is). It's why I bring it up in discussions about the competitiveness of non-propietary hardware (pc under a tv) vs designed to play games (console) as it ostensibly reduces the gap significantly
  • Some more info here (cross-posted from BF4 thread): http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/news/view/bf4-mantle-live/

    So if you've got a pretty brand new AMD GPU, you can grab the beta drivers and give it a try.
    Perf gains seem currently to increase with the power of the system and targeted high end graphics options, as these are more likely to be CPU bottlenecked.
  • Some of the results there are really quite impressive.
  • acemuzzy
    Show networks
    PSN
    Acemuzzy
    Steam
    Acemuzzy (aka murray200)
    Wii
    3DS - 4613-7291-1486

    Send message
  • Looks like DX team have had a fire lit under their arses: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/p/directx12.aspx
  • dynamiteReady
    Show networks
    Steam
    dynamiteready

    Send message
    Heh!

    Let's hope they weren't farting while the said fire was being lit...

    Fucking Microsoft...

    1GB+ for a freeware dev enviroment? ~.~
    "I didn't get it. BUUUUUUUUUUUT, you fucking do your thing." - Roujin
    Ninty Code: SW-7904-0771-0996
  • djchump wrote:
    Looks like DX team have had a fire lit under their arses: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/p/directx12.aspx

    Qualcomm?

    Edit: no, wait. Of course there's a WinMo version of DX...
  • Kind of ridic, directx11 isnt even properly adopted yet, what do they bring to the table with 12? Dx9 was the de-facto for a very, very, long time (and still is)

    From murmurs i gather both directx and opengl have put forward notions of increased exposure to the metal, so to speak, praps to take the wind out of Mantle's sails, in fact the latest ogl (4.3?) already sports some of these apparently, but adoption is slow thanks to apple dragging its feet with staying in line with the current specification (Theres no other big money establishment sporting it)

    I'm currently guessing they'll give directcompute a massive kick up the arse (gpu computing IS the future, absolutely no doubt, even the name 'gpu' is misleading now) and more focus on headline grabbers, possibly anticipated paradigm shift towards raster and raytraced hybrid arrangements. And possibly more explicit support for areas where 'next-gen' graphics technology needs to go - depending on the remit, possibly some big sdk demos featuring GI with no more fucking around, pbr, realtime genuine raytracing (real, actual, global glossy reflections) and things like that

    Maybe i'm attributing too much to what should be a low-level api but i just have a very strong notion of what you'll see from ms, nvidia and amd regarding what they'll package in their sdks and support for it

    In a perfect world though, directx could suck a fuck and opengl be a properly adopted cross-platform standard, with possibly mantle for the daring

    I found the qualcomm branding odd too, while ogles is behind the curve, esp as mobiles are becoming valid platforms for serious graphics (Apparently unreal 4 has the tools for making mobile efforts look unbelievably good), i'd only imagine them building chipsets around dx for winmobile, whats winmobiles uptake atm?
  • UE4 and CryEngine feeling the pinch from Unity it seems, so have drastically lowered licensing fees to draw in indies and others (though UE4 are celarly aiming to earn the cash from the 5% gross revenue licence and there must be something similar for CryEngine).

    As it is, the example/tutorial layouts for UE4 are pretty cool - the level design flow one especially for showing transition from blockout, to first pass meshes, lighting then FX/polish phases.
  • The crazy drop in license fees had me thinking for a moment, and definitely a moment of consideration, but then i've got to the point that assuming unity 5.1 bring in the rest of compute crowd to even that out, Unity by 5 is then going to be quite formidable, and the organisation and ease of getting something working would have to be seen from U4 etc to really consider a switch - especially because when it comes to the shiny things, the asset store already has products that shoor Unity up when its new GI system (well, not new, but licensed), Enlighten, is only useful in particular situations, for eg. In fact, shiny wise, Unity's right there with them and what is splitting these engines are their toolset and what youre actually making with them, although im more than happy to accept U4 and cryengine are no longer just fps makers

    Even at the given licensing costs, from my perspective i cant switch because if I want to do something I'm fully educated in in Unity, and I cant do it in U4, im suddenly a bit fucked. There are a good few of these as 3rd party support with unity is idiosyncratic in a very good way. Still, its a great initiative and its going to get way more people into game dev - I just cant really see Unity not returning this opening salvo (Not even including how plain exciting Unity 5 looks)

    Next few weeks are going to be FUN, ive got the money (i think) for the Quixel suite, that's somewhat transformative in my work (megascans look incredible), and skyshop showcased stuff at the gdc expo that surprised a lot of people, im so glad I own this, pbr/ibl, is very exciting and should integrate nicely with not only Unity's coming GI, but existing 3rd party GI, a new released screen space reflection plugin and this all mixed with a ridiculously fun looking artflow - im pretty happy to be using unity, but i am glad the other main two have stopped being so stanky

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!