Property.....and ting - The Bear and Badger

StrayAndroid

So in a poor attempt to be a responsible adult I'm attempting to actually make a BIG DECISION and get my foot on the property ladder in Londinium.

Decisions have been made as to whether I'd prefer a shoe box in a nice area (Greenwich), or a slightly larger shoebox in a not so nice area (Stratford), where "Crime in your area" informs me there were 14 "violent crimes" ....in one month...on the cul de sac the end of which was one of the (soulless) new builds I viewed...hmm noice.

So far gone through the travails of bullshit estate agents, bullshitting estate agents, unsound mortgage advisors (Advisor: "So how would you provide proof of earnings...payslips?" Me: "No as I told you previously I'm a contractor, so I predominantly reimburse myself in dividends" Advisor: "What's a dividend?" Me:"ohmahgawd"), do'a'upper flats, cosy flats (estate agent bullshit bingo and all that) etc etc, which has all been quite a laugh actually.

Anyway, if anyone is interested in passing on their experiences, common pitfall, anecdotes, tips etc or if you are in a similar position and are um-ing and ah-ing about whether to buy or not given the state of the economy, possible implosion of the Eurozone (at some point surely), expected rise in interest rates etc etc...I'm all ears.

Cheers.

Petey

Don't buy a flat in london?

mk64

buy in london. But buy as far out from the center as possible but with decent transport links.

Fringe areas like croydon have masses of ameneties, good transport links and reasonable pricing (because its farish out and there is alot of ex council).

Thats my 2p. Also when it comes to doing the survey, go for a full survey, dont scrimp on that as it'll bite you in the ass.

Jimmy The Lips

commuting into London isn't that bad, i can get into marylebone in 50 minutes on the train and I live about 80 miles away from London. Far enough away that you get a decent property but close enough that you can still have a social life in town if you want it.

google

I would concur with Jimmy.

Living in Croyden (or somewhere similiar) would only save a 10-20 minutes on your commute when compared with living in a nice part of Surrey, Berkshire, Oxfordshire, etc.

Aaroncupboard

I live in Woking, its a 35 min train ride to Vauxhall for me everyday. My flat is a great size with regards to costing, I know paying train travel evens it out. The commute isn't too bad.

google

Aaroncupboard said:
I live in Woking, its a 35 min train ride to Vauxhall for me everyday. My flat is a great size with regards to costing, I know paying train travel evens it out. The commute isn't too bad.

I grew up in Woking.

Where's your flat?

pantyfire

Yes do not buy in central London.

Prices are sky high, quality of life is rock bottom.

I have lived in Harrow, Kenton, Kingsbury (all North West), Dalston (near Hackney/East London), Worcester Park (South London - near Wimbledon) and through circumstance back to Harrow.

Dalston is the closest I have lived to the centre and it was hell, it was like scenes from Black Hawk Down nearly every time I left the flat. One day I realised that every time I left the flat something happened. Not to me personally but to someone else or in a shop or walking past a car, it was horrendous it really affected your mood and expectations of other people. And I thought it would literally be a matter of time before something happened to me or my girlfriend, could get out of there quick enough.

Ironically I have never lived so close to the centre and had such a hard time getting into London itself, terrible links. So as a hint stay away from the North London Link line, it's a piece of shit.

MK64 is correct, get more for your money by going further out (Grenwich isnt far enough), Wimbledon is nice distance out of the centre but pricey, one 5 min stop on the train further and it is a very pleasant place to live and you get so much more for your money. i.e. places like Worcester Park, Raynes Park, Motspur Park and New Malden are all on the same line and 20mins train from Waterloo.

If you go North then in general north of the north circular things get better but can still be a little tatty.

Harrow is nice but now a bit pricey, but Ruislip, Eastcote, Rayners Lane, Northwood etc... are all on the Metropolitan line and have their nice bits and bad bits.

And that is another thing to remember EVERY district in London has a nice area cheek-by-jowl with a rough area, sometimes one street is uber posh and the neighbouring street is a no go zone.

Me and Mrs Panty have bought a couple of flats in and around London over the years and we have never made the killing that most people regale us with tales of...i.e. "We bought the house for 250k and sold it in one week, 2 years later for 450k." fucking fantastic, fuck you, we never managed it so don't count on it. It's still much harder to make a loss on property in London even with the downturn but don't expect the massive returns that people will seduce you with.

As for flats....You wont want to hear this but don't buy one if you can afford a house, even if the house is tiny and falling down. Flats in London are a nightmare.

The flats themselves are fine. it's just the other people you will be living around. We have had nothing but bad luck.

From children running up and down in the flat above every single fucking morning for 4 years from 5.30 - 9.00am, to Afghany refugee drug dealers with guns living upstairs (this is not an exaggeration we actually did have one) and at one time we lived in a lovely 260k flat with a park and lakes with a communal hall that included a state of the art gym, we still managed to get the aspiring middle class parents that refused to consider anyone else that lived in the building and I also got attacked in my flat by a hysterical menopausal neighbour...for literally doing nothing.

So even if the flats look posh there is no respite.

It got so bad in one flat that we avoided going home and would drive the 270 miles to Liverpool every weekend to escape from the noise and stress, it can seriously affect your health.

Ground rent and maintenance are also a massive fucking con in London. Most of the time you will end up paying at least a grand and possibly upto 5k (if it is a nice new build flat with perks) a year in ground rent etc... but when something communal needs fixing (roof/windows etc...) they will come to the resident for money or pump the maintenance cost up the following year. They are mostly a scam to generate more money for the leaseholder. I know they are meant to be watched and governed etc...but through my experience they have all been scams and there is pretty much nothing you can do about it. So take this into account when you buy, you will have to find an extra 1-4k a year, depending, to live in a flat, so sometimes they are not always the cheaper option they appear to be.

If I had to now I would consider renting if I had to live in a flat, most of the time the extra costs are covered in the rent and you always have your options open if you get bad neighbours or an area goes down the pan, conversely you have less stability and it's never really your own place.

We had a flat above a Greggs bakers once, it was great until we tried to sell it, HSBC wouldn't give one buyer a mortgage because it was a fire risk but our mortgage was from the sodding HSBC so it might be an idea to look at what type of shop you are above if you choose one like that. I would advise moistly going for top floor flats if you are looking at the old 1930s style maisonette things (like the ones above shops), as the floors are wafer thin and you will hear everything - that I guarantee.

New builds have thicker regulation floors and are slightly better but you will still hear people and be disturbed by them, plus all new builds have a housing association clause when they are built where x% has to be given over to the council so be prepared if some of your neighbours aren't the upstanding citizens you hope*.

*Dont get shitty 99.9% of council tenants are perfectly good people but literally one bad apple can spoil everything for everyone. And bear in mind that I was attacked in my flat by a nutjob who was earning 70k a year.

In short if it means going that little bit further, or spending that little bit longer on the train then do yourself a favour and buy a house no matter how small or decrepit.

pantyfire

As an aside my friend recently bought a house in Kettering, several long miles away from London for about 150k. It takes his missus 1hr to get in to London.

Think long and hard about what you want for your actual quality of life, London can be attractive in your youth but man you can tire of it extremely quickly, it is relentless on the soul!

I have been here for 18 years and I am absolutely sick and tired of it, for all its things to do it is so fucking hard to actually do them.

Aaroncupboard

@Google: Midhope Road mate. Just outside of the main town bit really!

google

Aaroncupboard said:
@Google: Midhope Road mate. Just outside of the main town bit really!

I grew up a couple of blocks away from you on Poplar Grove.

Aaroncupboard

Oh yeah I know where you mean. Its a nice place. Been living here for about 6 months now. Its got a good chippy and chinese.

I havn't found a nice curry place yet though...

google

Aaroncupboard said:
Oh yeah I know where you mean. Its a nice place. Been living here for about 6 months now. Its got a good chippy and chinese.

I havn't found a nice curry place yet though...

I left Woking when I was 13 so I couldnt help you there.

Aaroncupboard

Dammit, I was hoping for a good suggestion....

No worries mate, whereabouts are you now then?

google

Vancouver, Canada.

Aaroncupboard

Yeah, so no chance of a good curry recommendation then really!

I take it Vancouver is ever so slightly different to Woking...

google

You know what, it is - but there are plenty of similarities.

It's a mix of many different cultures, it's growing at an enormous rate, there's lots of technology companies moving in.

Aaroncupboard

Yeah, I heard theres a lot of game companies starting up in Canada. Isn't it something to do with the taxes?

google

Aaroncupboard said:
Yeah, I heard theres a lot of game companies starting up in Canada. Isn't it something to do with the taxes?

I think so.

EA is actually the largest private employer here in BC - which is pretty weird considering how much other shit goes on up here.

Petey

The one problem with buying outside is that commuting can get pricey - Â£30 for me to get a travelcard for a day (I'm sure it goes down if I buy a season ticket, but still).

google

You have to weigh that in with the price of the place you're buying. If you're spending a few thousand quid a year commuting but saving 100k on the property, then it's worth it, right?

Petey

Depends I suppose. Granted, property prices my end are pretty pricey too, but I guess you could probably find a good balance elsewhere.

Brooks

Sort of assumed Dalston had been hit by the ol' gentrification napalm by now

pantyfire

Dalston and Hackney have their fare share of media types living there I.e journalists and the odd actor or comedian but it has a long way to go before it is anywhere near civilised. I grew up in a fairly rough area of Liverpool and it had nothing on Dalston.
Truly horrible place to live.

StrayAndroid

Cheers for the info gents. Particularly PF's point on Ground Rent and Maintenance, something to be looked into/taken into account, very much appreciated for the heads-up!

I've lived in and around London (Holborn, Fitzrovia, Bloomsbury, Canary Wharf, Clapham) for a fair old while so am relatively well versed in the reasonable and not so reasonable areas (i.e. tried to live in the "decent" areas-SAFE, go out in the not so "decent"-CHEAP).

Also I've done the commuting option for a few years, living in Surrey, and taking a 47min commute up to Waterloo and taking the drain into the city (about 1.5 hours door to door), which I wouldn't mind doing in the future, but feel like I have a few more years of London to go (maybe move back to a home county when I'm 30+...ooh the cliche).

With regards to my choice of areas the plan is to be on a direct (or at least short) transport link into the City/Wharf for work (hence looking at Stratford), but also a place that I don't just want to get away from at the weekends (hence moving attention away from Stratford to Greenwich). Most of my mates live all around London (Barnes, London Fields, Leicester Sq, New Cross etc), so don't want to be so far out that it becomes a chore getting anywhere (i.e. journey > 1 hour).

Anywhooo, put down an offer a bit off asking price today for a 1 bed victorian conversion...start off proceedings...not sure I'd pay full asking price...just out of principle!

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