Current Affairs
  • I assume its because they are being tested against the actual regulations, and not the made up industry ones.
  • Which asks the question. How many other materials have been improperly tested?
  • How many materials were they making up tests for I guess.
  • It is a rabbit warren of questioning that will need to be followed after the immediate issues are resolved.
  • Yeah, its precisely why I don't trust private companies at all.
  • "The markets will decide!" (how much your life is worth)
  • Governments and councils aren't totally blameless either.
    Letting things go to shit and then trying to quick fix stuff quick allows standards to slip and private firms to dictate regulations.
  • The problem is that for decades, successive Labour and Tory governments have farmed off virtually all governmental responsibility for anything controversial that could have been a pie in the face come a general election, to the private sector, councils, or just any Tom, Dick & Harry who happened to be passing through with their eye on a quick buck.
    It's been a downward spiral of passing the buck rather than taking responsibility for decades now, and this is the inevitable shitty mess that we end up in.
    Come with g if you want to live...
  • g.man wrote:
    It's been a downward spiral of passing the buck rather than taking responsibility for decades now, and this is the inevitable shitty mess that we end up in.

    Boom! Nailed it.

    And there are still huge opportunities for it to get worse before it gets better.
  • g.man wrote:
    The problem is that for decades, successive Labour and Tory governments have farmed off virtually all governmental responsibility for anything controversial that could have been a pie in the face come a general election, to the private sector, councils, or just any Tom, Dick & Harry who happened to be passing through with their eye on a quick buck.
    It's been a downward spiral of passing the buck rather than taking responsibility for decades now, and this is the inevitable shitty mess that we end up in.

    Not in Scotland. The Ayrshire tower fire in the late 00s led to a change in regards /practice.

    That said, I agree. Like Frank Sobotka said, nowadays every man his his hands in another's pockets.
  • legaldinho wrote:
    Not in Scotland. The Ayrshire tower fire in the late 00s led to a change in regards /practice.

    Note that no high-rise in Scotland uses the same cladding Grenfell did.

    Doesn’t mean they used anything better, necessarily. But it’s not the same.
  • Governments and councils aren't totally blameless either. Letting things go to shit and then trying to quick fix stuff quick allows standards to slip and private firms to dictate regulations.

    Yeah, but the fault is with the obsession with privatisation, which is something I strongly object to. For the most part I'd lay the blame for that at the door of Government rather than councils, as this stuff is often decreed from above, though I appreciate not in all cases.

    This is from a report regarding the Stock Transfer of council homes, referencing Preston, as one of the first to go through this type of deal:

    Community Gateway A Con
    The "Community Gateway Model" is just another word for stock
    transfer - privatisation. It is no more than a rebranding exercise.
    It is not true that it gives tenants any more power than ordinary
    stock transfer. The crucial point is that tenants on the board of directors
    have a legal obligation to the company - not to other tenants.
    Having more or less directors doesn’t change this
    fundamental relationship.
    Government claims that with the Community Gateway Model
    there will be a majority of tenants on the board - but this is false.
    In Preston, the authority which is ‘piloting’the first community gateway,
    the shadow board has been set up with seven tenants out
    of fifteen places: so tenants are still in a minority, and still bound
    by company law to represent the interests of the company. The
    tenants in Preston, believing they were empowered, tried to
    change the standard model for the legal set-up of the new company.
    They wanted to add ‘community empowerment’ as one of
    the companies legal 'objects', but the Housing Corporation wouldn't
    let them do it:
    "According to a report on the progress of the project, the Housing
    Corporation has raised concerns about the effect of increasing
    tenant involvement on the company's governance system.
    The corporation said the inclusion of 'community empowerment'
    as an objective in the gateway's rules would contravene the 1996
    Housing Act. Report author Nic Bliss said: 'The '96 Act has very
    specific rules about what housing associations can have as an
    objective, which is basically just to provide social housing and
    nothing else. Community empowerment is something we would
    like to have as an objective but it would require an act of parliament
    to do it.'
    The aim of the gateway project is to set up a stock transfer company
    that gives tenants more of a say in the way the organisation
    is run, [Preston Council's former head of housing] Deacon explained.
    … Tenants are, however, unlikely to be able to directly influence
    decisions taken by the board, according to the report.
    ' At this stage the tenant steering group cannot be said to be a
    tenant democracy.' "
  • dynamiteReady
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    For me, I'd at least like the authorities to concede the number of people officially declared missing. Because they can definitely do that now.
     

    &

    Yossarian wrote:

    Obviously not quite.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/28/grenfell-tower-death-toll-may-not-be-known-until-end-of-year-say-police

    Why would they need to confirm that by the end of the year in such a large number of cases?

    Let's be brutal about this. They should a least announce the number of kids the know are missing. They're much less likely to go away without leave.
    "I didn't get it. BUUUUUUUUUUUT, you fucking do your thing." - Roujin
    Ninty Code: SW-7904-0771-0996
  • Yossarian
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    They don't know how many kids were in the flats, apparently the details they have received about the tenants were out of date.
  • I'd rather they take their time and get the investigation right than just chuck out their best guesses as it goes along. It just seems to have become an issue because it's tied up with conspiracies, mismanagement of the properties and what not.
  • 149 tower blocks failed the tests now it seems. This is going to be expensive, but that's fine, cos the Tories have billions just lying around waiting to be used.
  • b0r1s
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    Drove past a couple of flats near where I grew up. It's full of old people. Thankfully they have nearly removed all the cladding.
  • dynamiteReady
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    monkey wrote:
    I'd rather they take their time and get the investigation right than just chuck out their best guesses as it goes along. It just seems to have become an issue because it's tied up with conspiracies, mismanagement of the properties and what not.

    Sorry. I rather, in this case, that justice be swift.

    Then we can have a detailed breakdown of the whole affair after.

    There's definitely a negligence case to answer to here. 
    Details are already emerging of a wilful request for cheaper materials...

    Make a fucking example.
    "I didn't get it. BUUUUUUUUUUUT, you fucking do your thing." - Roujin
    Ninty Code: SW-7904-0771-0996
  • Yossarian
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    60 separate firms have been identified as being part of the refurbishment, working out who in that lot bears responsibility won't be easy.
  • These things just take years and years. I don't see how there's any way around it. If evidence isn't followed up properly, court cases collapse. If police don't investigate properly, they might not find the guilty parties.
  • dynamiteReady
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    Ok. If not swift, transparent.

    An unprecedented level of transparency.
    That way, no one can drag their feet, or hide their shit.
    "I didn't get it. BUUUUUUUUUUUT, you fucking do your thing." - Roujin
    Ninty Code: SW-7904-0771-0996
  • The Right Honourable Taylor Swift has unfortunately been overlooked for this inquiry.
  • My understanding is that there will be an interim report in a matter of months that focuses on key issues that need to be known quickly.
    Cause of fire, what allowed it to accelerate, procedures etc.

    The point being insurance can be settled, regulations amended and other blocks changed, evacuated etc.

    The finger pointing will be in the longer term.

    A rush job is the last thing that should happen in regards to any criminal proceedings. Although I would hope we aren't looking at Hillsborough time lines either.
  • https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com

    Unbelievable, but sadly true. The ktcmo guy announced his resignation today. The other two were sitting together yesterday, explaining how, as soon as press cake in, that was it and the meeting is adjourned. The little lordling has the housing brief, and has done nothing since the fire to help. He is the one who pressurised the contractor into further cost savings. He bought a property overlooking the estate, so the redevelopment and regeneration plan presumably would generate a windfall for him.

    What a disgrace, sitting on hundreds of millions in cash reserves, finding 300k savings over the cladding. These guys will not make statements not because of the inquiry. It's because they know they are seriously at risk of misconduct in public office, for which they will do actual time. I sure hope so.
  • Bollockoff
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    Put em in with Bronson.
  • Christ, this mental health hospital in Venezuela on channel 4 news is absolutely horrific.

    Little food, little medication, absolutely zero psychiatrists on staff. 80% of patients are suffering malnutrition. Makeshift nappies.

    Imagine those horror movie mental health hospitals but in day light.
  • Grenfell survivors are allegedly finding that their rent is being taken from their accounts as per normal.

  • Fucking hell, the council take every opportunity to show that they are terrible fucking human beings.

    I mean, this entire article, but specifically this bit at the end in relation to th rent issue:

    Responding to these claims, Faulks said: “Oh come on. I’m not saying it’s a tiny thing, for them it’s a huge thing and its very upsetting.

    “But the council are in the process of trying to house 400 people. They’ve got people in hotels. They’ve put a social worker for every single family who is triaging them into a wraparound service.

    “I’m sorry to hear that happened, but that person will have a one person connection to go to to explain that’s happened to sort out.”

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