The Last Guardian and all things Ueda pasty present and future - The Bear and Badger

stonechalice

Got to say I thought SotC was over rated. The controls were flaky at best and the repetitive, 'climb up big thing until you're shaken off then repeat until brain dead' gameplay was nothing to write home about.

Great graphics and atmosphere though.

I'm still amazed we're on to page four of a thread about a game that doesn't exist, nor ever will.

In its original form anyway.

LazyGunn

The idea of a game being shifted on to the ps4 is not hugely absurd, the art would have already benefitted from a modern workflow and the sources would all be very highly detailed/high res. Then the biggest hits on the performance graphics-wise are the shaders which can safely be iterated and rewritten with much more freedom than the ps3 would allow, and then I think the big thing with a gen bump would be feeling the need to add 'next gen' stuff that impacts gameplay, which could take a chunk out of the devs free time

I can be certain that if it's indeed getting bumped to the ps4, the dev team are very happy about it, at least in terms of providing a real vision, so long as theyre getting paid

stonechalice

But is there even a game to get bumped? No. All we ever saw was a pre rendered video...

JMW

When you say 'team' it's pretty clear there's only one person working on this, and he's on long-term sick or off travelling or something.

cockbeard

Oh no, now you've got me wondering if Ueda is the Jap Molyneaux

dynamiteReady

stonechalice wrote:

Got to say I thought SotC was over rated. The controls were flaky at best and the repetitive, 'climb up big thing until you're shaken off then repeat until brain dead' gameplay was nothing to write home about. Great graphics and atmosphere though. I'm still amazed we're on to page four of a thread about a game that doesn't exist, nor ever will. In its original form anyway.

I was also thinking that.

LazyGunn

I think it ran into a bunch of problems cause the mechanics of having a giant flying dog thing as your AI partner are a brainache to even comprehend in a full fat game, nevermind having to make the game. The trailers already hinted at a crapload of work having been done, but I wonder if the game suffers mechanically like Last Of Us does, its lovely but there's just not enough mileage in the concept to fully flesh it all, how many buildings can you enter and invite your gigantic flying dog inside to do the game stuff with? saggy bits all over the place. like ur mom

IanHamlett

The griffin is an omniswitch, bridge, a key & your transport. You'd need to do all kinds of bullshit to lure it where you wanted it.

Brooks

I think that's probably on the money. I mean if you made a list of stuff one could do with the setup I forsee a lot of standing on floorplates, pushing blocks and ordering a massive thing to do likewise.

Still, the previews suggest that Escher-like spatial deviousness isn't entirely beyond the team as was.

LazyGunn

But what if you really do need the bombs at the end of the narrow hall filled with boy eating demons? What if you cant ride a chocobo with it? What now?

oop, @Ian

g.man

Brooks wrote:

I think that's probably on the money. I mean if you made a list of stuff one could do with the setup I forsee a lot of standing on floorplates, pushing blocks and ordering a massive thing to do likewise. Still, the previews suggest that Escher-like spatial deviousness isn't entirely beyond the team as was.

I can live with that. It's never been the gameplay mechanics that impress with Team Ico's efforts.

stonechalice

I would imagine there would be instances of giant limbs coming in through windows and gaps from outside to lift you up places and tailor made set pieces for bigguns to stomp over swathes of enemies while you watch from afar. Probably not a great deal we haven't seen before. Actual gameplay innovation would be a bit thin when you think about it.

Having him as transport would probably be nothing more than a pretty conveyor belt/elevator, and we've seen plenty of those. There would probably be some sections where you can control him in a superficial way: - e.g. flying through canyons in prerequisite dogfight level.

LazyGunn

I found bar some minor frustrations, that Ico's gameplay was great and they didn't wear it thin, short game, took the concept as far as it would go, full of beauty. I havent played SOTC through,ive seen youtube vids and some of the collosi look brill, but it seems like a situ where things could get a bit worn out, and they were pulling off the idea particularly well, in particularly arty technically great ways, but the long game proves slightly overmore than can be sustained

I felt the same about Last Of Us though and i really appreciated that game, art flair and a great sense of cohesion with the world really can replace the gameplay to a decent degree, and thats a comforting idea, especially when we increasingly want talented writers from the writing side of creative arts to bring their abilities to videogames and writing non-linear narrative is enough of a headache as it is without the stress of making it absolutely a great gamey game the entire way through. Throwing off the shackles of a game having to be a game is a good direction

Brooks

g.man wrote:

I think that's probably on the money. I mean if you made a list of stuff one could do with the setup I forsee a lot of standing on floorplates, pushing blocks and ordering a massive thing to do likewise. Still, the previews suggest that Escher-like spatial deviousness isn't entirely beyond the team as was.

I can live with that. It's never been the gameplay mechanics that impress with Team Ico's efforts.

I dunno, the hang-on-for-dear-life-stamina-management thing in Colossus was pretty fresh by most standards. Granted they probably pushed it as far as it could go without turning into a ruddy chore. Like, no-one's going to really top the epic scaling of the central temple, an appreciably subtle concession to 'hardcore'.

IanHamlett

I expect there'd be plenty of it waiting outside while you platformed your way to a broken aqueduct with a pineapple to lure it to bridge the gap.

God dammit. I need the water level in this 60m³ pool to go up but I only have 40m³ of water. How the fuck am I going to displace 20m³ of water?

How the balls am I going to knock the column over?

This cliff is too steep. If only I had a living JCB.

The princess is in another castle. That's 200 bastard miles away. If only I had a cat with wings.

This giant monster's a bit much. A feathery lizard twat would come in handy to keep it busy while I climbed on its back.

[Deleted User]

Brooks wrote:

g.man wrote:

Brooks wrote:

I think that's probably on the money. I mean if you made a list of stuff one could do with the setup I forsee a lot of standing on floorplates, pushing blocks and ordering a massive thing to do likewise. Still, the previews suggest that Escher-like spatial deviousness isn't entirely beyond the team as was.

I can live with that. It's never been the gameplay mechanics that impress with Team Ico's efforts.

I dunno, the hang-on-for-dear-life-stamina-management thing in Colossus was pretty fresh by most standards. Granted they probably pushed it as far as it could go without turning into a ruddy chore.

Aye, but I'd argue that the stamina bar and press button to hold hand are both gameplay flourishes designed to enhance tension/excitement/whatevs rather than satisfying mechanisms in their own right.

This is not me saying I think they underwhelm mechanically, far from it, I just find their games so satisfying for the small embellishments rather than the genre revolutions, 'sall.

IanHamlett

We have to remember that SotC was made on a machine that couldn't even begin to handle modern animation.

cockbeard

I like the way they draw you into the game by forcing yuo to hold on to the controller so that yuo hold on to something in the game, be that Yorda's hand or a colossus' hair. Even before analogue face buttons, we all pressed harder when more urgent, it's not only an indicator of engagement, but it adds immersion as well

I don't know what we'll need to hold onto this time, but I bet there'll be something

edit: FU Mike, beat me there

Brooks

At any rate, it's fair to say they picked the right set of verbs for the context. And I definitely found myself gripping the shoulder buttons harder than was remotely necessary.

[Deleted User]

Oh yar, and The Last Guardian will come out and it will be special and I will buy a machine for it. The likes of Dyno and Chalice can play with whatever shite brings them joy...do they still make Army Men games?

IanHamlett

I've only played a little of Heavy Rain so I don't know if this is right but they seemed to have completely misunderstood that controller grabbing thing. "The hero is in an awkward position. Let's make it awkward to hold the controller."

Brooks

Meanwhile it'd be hard to argue the Team Ico aesthetic hasn't cast a suitably imposing shadow over a whole bunch of game development since. For a while it's felt like every other small-studio action adventure game has been quaffing the sober/hands-off-presentation-as-a-matter-of-deliberate-choice-rather-than-technical-limitation Kool Aid liberally. Not so many have chosen to heavily desaturate their colours too, fortunately.

stonechalice

Childintime wrote:

Oh yar, and The Last Guardian will come out and it will be special and I will buy a machine for it. The likes of Dyno and Chalice can play with whatever shite brings them joy...do they still make Army Men games?

Righto.

I liked SotC, just didn't think it was as good as many say. I found it repetitive and clinging on to big monsters very tedious.

I loved Ico. That was a stunning game for its time. I still have the original cardboard PS2 box with the little postcards.

I don't need an 'Army Man game' and not sure where you're getting that shite from?

I'm particularly touchy today so watch it.

g.man

I'm struggling to think of many games, good or bad, that aren't repetitive.

stonechalice

Souls games. There's a variety of gameplay options available to you at all times, no single play through is ever the same.

Brooks

I think I still prefer Ico too. Probably because I'm a Metroid dork.

[Deleted User]

stonechalice wrote:

I don't need an 'Army Man game' and not sure where you're getting that shite from?

I'm particularly touchy today so watch it.

Fine, not Army Men games, I don't know what you like. Probably Dead or Alive Beach Volleyball 2 or summat.

g.man

stonechalice wrote:

Souls games. There's a variety of gameplay options available to you at all times, no single play through is ever the same.

...and yet, it's still incredibly repetitive.

Brooks

They don't do themselves favours by never switching up the monster spawn points. Allegedly this is being addressed in Bloodbo but we shall see.

JonB

You'd want games to be repetitive though, right? You want a small set of actions to focus on that develop throughout the game, so you have to keep doing them in slightly different combinations, or with more accuracy or whatever. There's no depth in it otherwise.

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