God - The Bear and Badger

Rev

We shall see what happens.

Unlikely

Fucking hell, there's a reason I avoided this thread on the old forum and now I remember why.

Rev

djchump wrote:

revelthedog wrote:

I still don't see where you are coming from, except to sit and the sidelines and not join in.

I'm not going to bother joining in until you bother to use words correctly to mean the things they're supposed to mean.

Inconceivable!

Ali

Gonzo wrote:

What about our reality, the real things created by social interaction (essentially language, meaning)? They're real to us. I think that point of view overlooks our own ability to create reality. What about consciousness, and our interactions with the physical world? What about free will? Why can we understand what we do about the physical world? Will we understand more of it? Why are we here? Why can we ask the question? Are either of these questions significant in the light of your assessment? I think there's plenty of marvelous things out there. Religiosity and spiritualism can help get a handle on it, or like you, they can help us give up on a futile enterprise because, well, deus ex machina. It's neutral, really. You can be an atheist and a nihilist, or you can have blind faith in another construct. You can be religious and seek to understand, like for example the translation movement and breakthroughs thereafter in abbasid baghdad. Because God told you to, or because what he created is worth investigating; or because you reject god and you think everything can be explained without a deity . It's just motivation.

All pointless. The Earth will be uninhabitable in 2 billion years and wiped out by the sun going nova in 5 billion.

Hulka T wrote:

Thats ~~kinda~~ depressing

Actually, I find it liberating. As a species, we should really stop navel gazing and inventing afterlives and get on with living in the hear and now.

Paul the sparky

That last paragraph is a winner. You can't go wrong with that.

Raiziel

I grew up in a easy going but most definitely Christian household, so there really wasn't too much to rebel against. Â But by the time I was about fourteen I was definitely looking for my own answers. Â I was desperate for there to be a god, but there was just something that didn't really fit for me.

This may seem silly, but one day I was sitting at the table eating breakfast upon which was placed a vase of wilting daffodils and I thought to myself 'they'll be dead soon, are they going to heaven? Â Everything dies. Â Just because we're capable of imagining an afterlife it doesn't make it so'. Â Just like that, in a split second, I became an atheist. Â Simplistic, I know, but I considered myself cured after that point. Â Isn't the desire for a god and an afterlife born from a fear of death and oblivion.

Paul the sparky

That and making sense of the shit that happens to us. Having someone/thing to thank/blame. See also the concept of luck.

LesterUnlimited

djchump wrote:

Little Franklin

I believe in a God, no real reason why, it's just so deeply ingrained in me that I can't even consider the possibility that there isn't one. But I don't get angry at people who don't because there's no reasonable reason why they should.

Raiziel

But Franklin, don't you want to question why you believe in something?

Rev

LittleFranklin wrote:

I believe in a God, no real reason why, it's just so deeply ingrained in me that I can't even consider the possibility that there isn't one. But I don't get angry at people who don't because there's no reasonable reason why they should.

exactly. I was explaining my thoughts. I felt I was being lynched for an opinion.
I wasn't raised as a religion follower.
I came by my decision after long periods of thought.

I also think seeing my dad just after he passed. Lying there. But it wasn't him. He looked empty. The body looked empty. Just confirmed that there is something inside us more than nerves and electrical impulses that make us who we are.
There are too many points in my life where there are mini miracles. You take that bus, go to that shop first, turn left instead of right. And something happens that changes your life.
So i found god after going through science. I believe in the facts of science. I believe in the presence of something godlike. Its my opinion. And a part of me. And it gives me peace as i get older.

I feel I've been tarred with a religious brush. I don't follow a dogma told to me. I don't have a faith. I have faith. I argue hypotheses on science like a scientist as well.
i believe there is a god.

Raiziel

But don't you believe because you wantÂ to believe? Â I understand that perhaps when you lose people close to you it might make you vulnerable to these crutches, but still...

Facewon

revelthedog wrote:

Â I'm a scientist as well.

My faith in science could be shaking right now.

He really gets a bit - passionate about these things.

Gets a little frustrated when people make statements/assertions (granted, that were not the main point of your posts) that are flat out wrong, or lazy generalisations, would be how I'd describe it.

exactly. I was explaining my thoughts. I felt I was being lynched for an opinion.
I wasn't raised as a religion follower.
I came by my decision after long periods of thought.

Lynched? Really? Hiding behind "it's just my opinion" is weaksauce. You're absolutely right you're entitled to your opinion, but the thing is, others are entitled to theirs, and if you're slipping in either assertions that are flat out wrong, and/or using words that don't mean what you want them to mean, then people WON'T "get the jist." The previous iterations of this thread have been filled with pages of lazy use of some of these words and it just doesn't freakin help. I'm certainly not lynching you for believing in what you believe, and meant what I said in my first post about soundness, I just get a little miffed when it seems it's required to take pot shots at atheists and science to make your point, especially with mischaracterisations and misuse of words.

@hozno: I see you thar.

@mod: Let's see what your timing was like.

Facewon

Not bad.

Rev

Facewon wrote:

Not bad.

well im glad that's cleared up.

bed time

Skerret

Paul the sparky wrote:

Proper Friday thread this 'un. Pass the popcorn Skerret you greedy VB drinking bastard.

VB, eugh.Â I'm out of popcorn and there is no god.

Fascinated by some of the ting that revel is saying, i.e. effectively stating that there is undoubtedly more to us than our bits/soul.Â How this is reconciled with his scientific leanings I'm not sure.Â Also, Face is right, one must clearly define terms before having a proper discussion about this sort of thing.Â Also also, quiet Oxno.

g.man

Skerret wrote:

I'm out of popcorn and there is no god.

I have just discovered a tube of Pringles in the kitchen cupboard.

clearly there is a god

g.man

Skerret

God of Pringles maybe.Â I think there's a picture of him on the tin.Â There is no god of popcorn.

Mod74

Facewon wrote:

Can we still access the old old forum? Even just to read. Interested to do a bit of then and now comparison.

Anyone think they're in a very different space re god and religion and spirituality etc compared to where they were.

I think I probably am. I've always been and still am an agnosticÂ atheist , but my girlfriend has been on a spiritual journey (for want of a better term) and is being confirmed this Sunday.

Because of this I've accompanied her to church twice and was very surprised in the difference between what I thought it would be like and what it was actually like.

Whenever I'd been in a church up till now they were always empty (apart from the other tourists) and silent. Or it was a wedding/funeral and almost nobody else wanted to be there either.

Going to a service that people actually want to be at, and the atmosphere that creates is very different to what you experience on a tour bus. I wonder how many of the staunch atheists here have ever attended a normal service?

I've always thought I understood why people chose to believe in God but not how they managed to do it on a daily basis.

I think now I understand how they do it much better, but understand why they do it a little less. The reasons I thought they did it have become less important/obvious somehow. i.e. I don't see people desperately searching for something that rationalises unknowns or the promise of an afterlife.

I've sat there and listened to what the speakers say and whilst there definitely hasn't been a Jake Blues moment of divine inspiration I have thought, yeah, you know what, this isn't as bad as I thought it would be. These people aren't stupid, they just believe in something I don't, and are..well, just ordinary people.

Raiziel

You thought these people were stupid beforehand?

Little Franklin

Raiziel wrote:

But Franklin, don't you want to question why you believe in something?

Well my parents believe in God, but I've never seen any need to examine my beliefs. I don't really follow any religion.

Mouldywarp

revelthedog wrote:

Just confirmed that there is something inside us more than nerves and electrical impulses that make us who we are.

If nerves and electrical impulses create human conciousness then that doesn't mean human consciousness is any less amazing. Does there always have to be "something more"? If theÂ existenceÂ of god was an everyday reality, say we actually all saw him and spoke to him on a regular basis, then god itself would become humdrum. And people would be saying "yes, but there's got to be something more than god..."

Personally, I can accept theÂ existenceÂ of a natural god but not of a supernatural one. If god exists it may well be beyond human comprehension, but it isn't beyond nature. And as most people take god to mean supernatural, I tend not to use the word when describing my own beliefs.

Mod74

Raiziel wrote:

You thought these people were stupid beforehand?

Depends, "believing" covers a lot of ground, some of it rather wacky.

Raiziel

Mod74 wrote:

Raiziel wrote:

You thought these people were stupid beforehand?

Depends, "believing" covers a lot of ground, some of it rather wacky.

Quite right.

cockbeard

Why should people choose to examine only their choice in religion. We all place faith in many principles, yet not everyone is expected to deeply examine and progress the study of each of them. Hell, if they were the Nobel Laureate shortlist would be massive but we'd have no food or industry. Also can we draw a line between Atheism (irrational faith in complete lack of higher power) and agnosticism (meh, we'll find out)

Raiziel

cockbeard wrote:

Why should people choose to examine only their choice in religion. We all place faith in many principles, yet not everyone is expected to deeply examine and progress the study of each of them. Hell, if they were the Nobel Laureate shortlist would be massive but we'd have no food or industry. Also can we draw a line between Atheism (irrational faith in complete lack of higher power) and agnosticism (meh, we'll find out)

Where would you like to draw the line, exactly?

Little Franklin

I guess people think it's important to examine religion because it influences how people choose to live their lives, and more importantly how they let others live theirs.

Mouldywarp wrote:

Personally, I can accept theÂ existenceÂ of a natural god but not of a supernatural one. If god exists it may well be beyond human comprehension, but it isn't beyond nature. And as most people take god to mean supernatural, I tend not to use the word when describing my own beliefs.

How do you imagine a natural God would work?

Little Franklin

Do you think games predispose people towards atheism, depicting God simply as another trivial mythologicalÂ character, only there to provide stat boosts or act as a final boss. Can't think of any games that treat the idea of God with any kind of reverence.

cockbeard

I'd like to draw that line through every use of the word atheism where it's used alongside terms like science, ration, evidence, non-mentalist and then replace that agnosticism

I don't see how an Atheist can have a problem with a Theist based on the only difference between them that we know, as faith is an internal thing, whether that's a faith in a presence or absence of a higher power, it's an equally irrational point of view. However I can see how either party might have a problem with the preaching of that faith, as therein lies the ability to offend. People often don't like being called wrong

Mod74

LittleFranklin wrote:

Do you think games predispose people towards atheism, depicting God simply as another trivial mythologicalÂ character, only there to provide stat boosts or act as a final boss. Can't think of any games that treat the idea of God with any kind of reverence.

Whilst a sweeping generalisation I think games depictions of God reflect their audience. Young, male.

Yeah yeah, gamers are getting older and I've heard some girls play them too, but you sort of know where I'm going from.

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