Immigration thread.
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It's a thing that deserves a thread. Let them in or not? Economic booster or terrorist threat?
Anyhoo, mass graves. -
My opinion is that you actually crack down on exploitative labour and it automatically fixes the "They tuck-arr-dubbbbs" mentality.
In a fair and well run society immigration can only be a possitive.
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Most of the best and brightest students I know are foreign. Not technically immigrants although a bunch of them are reading up on Visa applications so maybe they will be.
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Can anyone tell me an argument for restricting immigration? Be brave, I won't judge.
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Pretty much the only upside that I see is that doing so would put UKIP out of business. -
I'm pro immigration but there are challenges thrown up by sudden rises in numbers from another country. Seems like the most anti-immigration peeps I've met haven't had any dealings with immigrants at all. I'd guess we wouldn't have such an anti immigration sentiment if it'd been handled better."..the pseudo-Left new style.."
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IanHamlett wrote:I'm pro immigration but there are challenges thrown up by sudden rises in numbers from another country.
What are they then? The formation of Pakistan comes to mind, and Israel, but I'm struggling to come up with much else. -
I could see a scenario where "Britian is full" may actually happen. It certainly isn't now.SpaceGazelle wrote:Can anyone tell me an argument for restricting immigration? Be brave, I won't judge.
If we rolled back to WWII I could see a very strong argument for limiting immigration in a way that separates working immigrants and refugees. There are scenarios that would require thought. We aren't in one.
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One I heard was from a midwife in an area that had seen a lot of families from some east asian country or other. She said there were cultural problems with pregnant women arriving at hospital at 8.5 months in for the first time and genetic problems where that would have a higher likelihood of certain complications than what the hospital were equipped for.SpaceGazelle wrote:
What are they then? The formation of Pakistan comes to mind, and Israel, but I'm struggling to come up with much else.IanHamlett wrote:I'm pro immigration but there are challenges thrown up by sudden rises in numbers from another country."..the pseudo-Left new style.." -
It is manageable. But if it's not managed properly then we end up with people voting for anti-immigration parties.
Obesity is worse. Global warming is even worse than that."..the pseudo-Left new style.." -
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SpaceGazelle wrote:Can anyone tell me an argument for restricting immigration? Be brave, I won't judge.
The M4 gets really busy
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I hate and fear people with a darker skin colour to mine. I see them as less than human and don't want them in my country.SpaceGazelle wrote:Can anyone tell me an argument for restricting immigration? Be brave, I won't judge.
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A great user name for comedy racist abuse
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Seriously though, I'm amazed by how much of an issue this has become. I want more immigration and emigration. I want a huge mass movement of people, stirring up the populations of countries around the world. Beyond avoiding spikes in influx (in general and in specific areas to avoid stuff like pressure on schooling, jobs etc) and if we ever reach some theoretical maximum limit on people per square inch of any given country.
I'm British and I've got a lot of the traits normally associated with being from that culture like being reserved and snobby, having a sense of humour so dry that it's almost impossible to tell when I'm joking. Even I'm not sure most of the time. But being precious about that cultural identity is crazy. The land I live in should be full of everyone from everywhere. The more people seeking and being granted asylum the better. The more British ex pats out in the world the faster we can all get to our inevitable destiny of being one big global chocolate coloured race of peace loving wankers. This debate is all so backwards, being driven by the block voting preferences of daft OAP racists and tabloid reading idiots. -
I used to go out with a human rights lawyer, who advocated abolishing all boarders. I obviously mocked her at the time, but it might not be that bad an idea once the initial churn sorts itself out.
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In other words, I agree with our simian friend
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We all know that old people are racists, but UKIP need to broaden appeal or their voters will largely die off.
Those most concerned about immigration tend to be those who know the least about it. It's pretty easy for Kippers to spin a yarn about how HIV infested foreigners are bringing down the NHS. But the truth is that it costs us fuck all in the grand scheme of things. The Department of Health estimates the cost of health tourism at somewhere between £110 million, and £280 million.
The NHS Budget is £95.6 billion. Or to put it another way, 'health tourism', which covers a variety of things costs 0.2% of the NHS budget. -
I can see how people in poor disadvantaged communities get pissed off when it seems like there's no jobs, and when it seems like they're being undercut by 'immigrants' in the job market.
But I think blaming those immigrants themselves is pointless and dangerous, and ignores the real issue of the power of employers in the job market to just hire any clown who happens to be cheap, whether that means an immigrant or a poor JSA claimant who's been forced to work for free in order to continue claiming their meagre benefit allowance.
The inherent small-minded parochialism of UKIP (and borderline racism) makes the issue toxic for the nominally left-wing parties, who haven't really found a way to address the issues (if you consider them issues). See Labour's laughable and awful 'controls on immigration' banner as they announced their wishy-washy manifesto.
I think for some people the fear-mongering appeals as they see 'British culture' watered down, or something, it doesn't bother me that much as I think large parts of British culture are kinda dreadful. -
To the people who vote UKIP (I'm guessing) - The Sun, the England football team, beer, old fashioned common sense, white faces...
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British culture is definitely a thing, parts of it we share with other countries (most of Northern Europe shares a similar attitude to alcohol as us) parts of it are pretty unique (I'm not sure if anywhere else quite understands our sense of humour). One of the things Mrs Yoss has had most trouble adapting to here, for instance, is how we deal with conflict which is far less direct than in France.
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There are obvious benefits.Kow wrote:The kill Skerret movement gains ground.Skerret's posting is ok to trip balls to and read just to experience the ambience but don't expect any content.
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The long term and difficult answer to immigration is making sure the shitty economies that a lot of immigrants come from are doing better, or at least not deliberately undermining them.
UK companies were among those to benefit from Poland privatising various state industries, effectively extracting money from the Polish economy and bringing back to the UK. As long as there's this international transfer of wealth going on there will be people trying to follow it. Trying to stop them will only get more expensive and involve increased security, tougher laws, invasion of privacy and so on. -
May was asked what these British values were by John Humphries. He didn't get an answer.
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EU immigrants not allowed to vote in EU ref..
Hilarious."Better than a tech demo. But mostly a tech demo for now. Exactly what we expected, crashes less and less. No multiplayer."
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Values are a more nebulous but probably more universal thing than culture.Diluted Dante wrote:May was asked what these British values were by John Humphries. He didn't get an answer. -
SpaceGazelle wrote:Can anyone tell me an argument for restricting immigration? Be brave, I won't judge.
The only argument against it is when it is poorly planned. Work needs to be done to ensure it is properly regulated to avoid social exclusion.
ie.
1. Making sure that immigrants who have language barriers are given access to linguists/translators and assistance to navigating public services.
2. Ensuring some kind of employment services to protect against large localised areas of high unemployment. This is analogous to housing estates for non-immigrant populations where intergenerational unemployment/poor education become serious problems.
3. Ensuring refugees with traumatic backgrounds have access to mental health services to ensure their kids/family aren't re-traumatised by PTSD episodes.
4. Health checks to ensure proper immunisation and treatment is available where people come from areas at high risk of certain diseases (mainly tropics).
None of those points are arguments against immigration, just really pitfalls to avoid which sadly keep recurring."Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness." ― Terry Pratchett
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