LivDiv wrote:

I think what's really important is that MM invest in a team that can support propping up the interesting and well realised content.

I don't think algarithmns and fan voting is enough. It will need curation.

Tbf I have no idea if they have announced plans in that regard.

I think they will be doing a lot of this, they've already started with the highlights on the streams, and there's things like the Game Jam competition which is running currently, should be some crazy things to come out of that. The social side of things is something they've invested in a fair bit I think, the previous games they've made have given them a fair bit of experience in that aspect. The success of the game definitely hinges on how easy it is for people to find stuff they like, and on how the really quality creations can rise to the top. Community curation and word of mouth will be super important there.

A really cool feature that the game is being able to see the 'genealogy' of a creation (character, model, music etc) by seeing every dream that something has been used in, and who created it. Basically metadata for individual assets, nice way to give credit where due.

Mikemsp wrote:

I wonder how much customisation is available in terms of say 3D platformers, where the experience does depend on the feel, can you alter how the character moves, how far do they jump, slide etc?

There are some bits they've made to get people started into something quickly, like the standard bipeds, where you can pull all the proportions around, sculpt form and colour onto, and tweak a bunch of sliders to alter gait and some basic 'physics'. Most of what they showed over the last few years has been using that as a base for characters for third person gameplay, and that's where the cookie cutter aspect lies I think, but most of the creations show recently have been far more customised or abstract.

This is really cool, as I was a bit concerned as you are that most of what we would see would be too similar and a little janky. But I think MM have cottoned on, and are now really focusing on variety for their showcases.

You don't have to use the standard bipeds as they are, but they are a nice way for people to get quick results. For really tight animation and responsive gamplay though most will end up building their own custom animations and physical movements with the 'microchip' logic system or whatever they are calling it now, same sort of thing that was in LBP2 which was rather excellent, and could be used for some seriously complex results. Like I think for some of the characters that they are using in their story modes that will be shipping with the final game they've used what are basically keyframes for various special animations, so obviously there are limitations with the easy mode biped, and at some point you will want to get your hands dirty with some proper game dev hacks.

Like that little pug on the previous page will have been made with a bunch of custom tweaks in it's logic, they've shown it before but you can open up a character's internal logic and see how everything works, the jump mechanics, the environment detection stuff that will switch the character into some different animation states, that kind of stuff.

Here's a little game that someone made, neat concept that looks quite fun. I'm pretty sure they could alter the cursor to something other than the standard imp, which is a bit obtrusive.

Certainly it's quite substantially more complex than LBP, and all the tools and techniques will probably take a fair bit of time to get proficient in. You won't have to git gud at everything to make something though, you will be able to pick and choose from a vast library of user created assets, and plonk them about your level for quick results. So remixing of certain kinds of games will be a thing, like there was a freerunning platformer time trial game shown in a past stream, and all the parts are modular and can be snapped together to make something entirely new.

Heh

Beta NDA has been lifted, so share away. Should be plenty of interesting streams and videos that will start to come out now.

It doesn't seem much less complicated than Unity...

People currently streaming the beta on Twitch - https://www.twitch.tv/directory/game/Dreams

Aye, agree with all that

Heh. Platform holders fault though?

Mikemsp wrote:

I’ve been having a look at videos of this the last couple of days,  I’ve still not seen anything that made me think ‘that looks fun to play’ I’ve seen a lot of things that are impressive for being created via the tools available though, but nothing that makes me think there’d be any sort of longevity or endless supply of fun games, if any.  I watched a video of the developers creating a level and attaching AI to a tree enemy, was impressed you can do that, but didn’t stop it looking janky as fuck and illuminating that to get anything looking actually good by today’s standards it’s going to take a huge amount of time and effort.  I’m open to having my mind changed though, hopefully they’ll be some good videos soon.

@MikeMSP - Most of what has been shown recently has mainly been odd little concepts and demos, not much in the way of full experiences yet, anything complex will take a bit of time, like any kind of game development. That said, I think the rate of development will speed up quite a bit as people get used to the tools, and new tricks and techniques are understood, similar to how game development improves substantially over the life of a console generation as devs really get to grips with the hardware.

MM have shown a little bit of gameplay of their story campaign they are making for the full release, looked rather swish and polished to me. But if you aren't a fan of MM's sort of cute and quirky house style like in LBP and Tearwaway then you probably won't be impressed by that. I'll be keeping an eye out as usual for cool stuff, and I'll try to share the best creations made across a variety of genres and styles.

EDIT: meant to quote your response to me Gurt

Yeah I’m hopeful to see that. I don’t want to sound overly negative, I just had high hopes for this, I know it isn’t even released yet but I was just passing judgement on what I’ve seen so far. I did look on twitch and there were a few people playing PT recreations. That’s precisely the stuff I don’t want, if I want to play PT, I’ll play PT (until my PS4 dies then it’s lost forever) not a recreation that isn’t as good, impressive though the creation of it in dreams is in such a small time frame. 

I enjoyed the LBP campaigns back in the day. 

I even made a level on LBP 1 and I enjoyed the process, the level was actually Ok-ish I think , but I’m a lazy bastard and got creators block after that. 

I haven’t seen the story campaign footage of this yet, will take a look.

Free for personal use.

Asked an indie game dev in a stream how he thought this compares to using Unity or similar, he reckons it's waaay faster and easier. But that's just one dude, I'll keep looking and asking around.

Damn it, wish I could just play this now!

And for those that know someone who is perhaps wanting to get into game development in some way, this seems like something I would definitely recommend. Great way to play around with basic level design concepts, level/AI logic, character design, sound design, etc etc etc. Obviously not going to teach 'proper' coding and stuff, but just to get your head around the sort of skills and thinking needed it seems to be pretty useful.

Yeah I'm the same Muzzy. I can appreciate it but wouldn't buy into it now.