Nintendo Switch - IT'S ON
  • Nintendo are probably very content with their smaller slice of the pie knowing their bit is full of tasty steak (profit) where as sony and microsoft are fighting over the larger bit that's a got a lot of gravy and onion to wade through to find the steak.
    They certainly aren't content with it at the moment, otherwise they wouldn't be ditching the Wii U so soon.
    In saying that, personally i'd love for nintendo to make a 'standard' console, one that can match the ps4/one for performance and 3rd party support, play blu ray and dvds, and still give access to nintendo's own software too.  that would be a piece of kit that could finally tempt me into an upgrade from my ps3.
    The only way that machine will exist is if Nintendo go software only and make multiformat games. 

    From my own point of view I can't see a downside to that anymore. I'd still like to play some Nintendo games, but there's no way I'm buying one of their consoles just for that.
  • We don't actually know they are ditching Wii U.
  • It seems like the right time to try a console equal or more powerful than a PS4, with a blu-ray drive and a hard drive. I'm assuming 2 years after the PS4 launch they can do that at an acceptable price and make a profit. Make it easy for ports, advertise it properly on TV. The unique selling point would be the Nintendo games.

    I think trying another type of control innovation could be a disaster this time, they need at least some ports of the big mainstream hits. I'd also write off the chances of a lightning in a bottle game turning the tide this time, unless they can come up with something that can't be copied by dozens of smartphone devs. That wider audience isn't completely lost to smartphones and tablets, but they're going to be much tougher to convince now.
  • They'll never go toe-to-toe with Sony & Microsoft.
  • This will flop out the gates imo.

    Think how well Wi U was supported initially. FIFA, CoD, Batman, Ass Creed, Mass Effect, an all new Mario and a console exclusive from Ubisoft (just announced to be coming to XOne/PS4 now).

    NX will release with none of those apart from Mario.

    All the 3rd parties will say that they'll keep an eye on it and release the 'standard' stuff on it if sales pick up.

    Then a vicious circle of not selling enough because of not having CoD, FIFA etc will resume with the 3rd parties walking away, or should I say not bothering to jump on board.
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  • djchump wrote:
    They'll never go toe-to-toe with Sony & Microsoft.
    To get ports, I think they have to. And they really need ports, it's obvious that they can't produce enough content on their own now.
  • Considered might be a better word. MS and Sony I would say are more reactionary.

    What

    Their next gen arch is basically identical and a model based on a cheapish pc basis. The methodology is to secure what is needed to get cods, fifa and just the perpetuation of the status quo. When ms tried a new paradigm for the selling of games Sony trolled them by maintaining the same system as now. The trolling worked because of an outcry. When ms tried to combine more than games into their business model gamers were like yo, games. And Sony just released a barebones game player that only just announced any decent media functionality.

    This is conservative. Gamers are conservative.





  • We don't actually know they are ditching Wii U.
    Yeah, but they probably are. They can hardly develop for that and another new platform.
  • Also, miyamoto just said the wii u was too expensive and the next thing will be affordable.

    So I think ps4 level is out of the game.

  • Nintendo is basically about the hail Mary holy mother of fuck play. It pays off fairly often.

    The Nes was released after the videogame crash.
    The wii, the Ds were massive gambles next to the continuation strategies of Sony and Microsoft.

    I think out of everyone Sony is probably the worst. They just keep promising the world and live off the fumes off third parties and hype and boringness.

    Since Spencer has come the xbone is something I can get behind.
  • WiiU is expensive due to the gamepad.
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  • Think how well Wi U was supported initially. FIFA, CoD, Batman, Ass Creed, Mass Effect.....
    weren't they all generally inferior than existing 360/ps3 versions though?  Buying lesser versions of games you've already got isn't a great incentive to move to a console for me, so it's not surprising they didn't sell that well, especially when you factor in that you knew that was the limit of the performance of the new console, and the ps4/one were just around the corner.
    if the Wii U had of been a step up in performance at the time, so that you were getting the best version of those games, i think a lot more people would have been tempted.
    The problem for them now is (if they wanted to compete directly on hardware level), at the time of the Wii U they could have released a more powerful machine than their rivals at a competitive price...now i think they'll struggle to (noticeably) out-perform the ps4/one hardware without going in at a much higher price point...so the best they'd get is a nintendo console that can match the existing hardware, and hope enough people have been holding off upgrading that will buy the nintendo console for mario and fifa...
    "Like i said, context is missing."
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  • They were generally better, at least from a gameplay perspective. Definitive versions with the DLC. Batman had some slowdown, but gamepad added to the experience, and you could get it for a fiver. Mass Effect 3 - gamepad improved the experience and you can still get it for a fiver.

    But they came out too late I think. Most had already played the games, and the PS4 and Xbone were just around the corner.

    If they release the NX soon, with PS4/Xbone power and without the gamepad - this might be better timing, as they should catch plenty of people that haven't upgraded yet. They can then have definitive ports of the current gen games. So it really is an option between buying it on one of the other consoles or the NX. There's no impending new Sony/MS consoles to worry about.

    Ports are cheap and easy, especially if they use PC architecture as well.

    They will either do a new interface device or support existing ones. I can't see them go normal controller only. I think it'd be good if they just support the wiimote. Maybe the gamepad if they like. Although it really does get a bit of a mess with support for all of it. There are a lot of of wiimotes lying around. Not so many gamepads.
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  • Call it the Nintendo 1 maybe
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  • Even ic Ninty do drop a console with PS4/XB1 specs, how is their online service these days?
    There can be no rebirth without a dark night of the soul, a total annihilation of all that you believed in and thought that you were. Inayat Khan
  • Functional. I haven't heard of people bleating tbecause it's down too often but that's probably because it functions as a means for players to get online rather than a multimedia platform
  • The connecting to people aspect and playing games infrastructure is great.

    The extra stuff that people consider standard is done on a game by game basis and seemingly at random.

    Nintendo games have in the past included every feature and more from modern online games, but only one or two per game.
  • Even a similarly specced machine wouldn't be enough to bring back the 3rd parties. They'd need assurances about launch windows and stuff I think. No one wants to bring out a game on the same platform as Mario, Kart and Zelda.
  • Which is why it would be dumb to make a third party machine from a certain perspective.

    Imo a Nintendo only console would be worth it with the combination catalogue of 3ds and wii u.

    For example. You wouldn't need MK7 and Mk8. Or 3d world and 3d land. Or nsmb2 and NSMBU.

    Resource saved on rebuilding engines for essentially the same games could be spent on new games.
  • @RamSteelwood I agree.

    What I'm mainly getting at is that the Wii U failed with at least having ports. I can't see the NX having any support at all, I really can't.

    Ubisoft got burned with the effort they put into the Wii U and something obviously happened between Nintendo and EA regarding that unprecedented partnership. Not getting support from those two alone will probably turn off Activision and anyone else.

    Its just something that will spiral into everyone turning their back on it regardless of if its the most powerful system on the maket or another console with a unique angle. Even if it does mirror the success of the Wii it would take those companies at least a year to get SW out.
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  • Which is why it would be dumb to make a third party machine from a certain perspective. Imo a Nintendo only console would be worth it with the combination catalogue of 3ds and wii u. For example. You wouldn't need MK7 and Mk8. Or 3d world and 3d land. Or nsmb2 and NSMBU. Resource saved on rebuilding engines for essentially the same games could be spent on new games.
    This is where I am thinking from.

    Problem: Nintendo  can't /won't produce a steady enough flow of games to support their two systems.

    Solution A: Create a new system matching  spec of rivals while retiring one current system (Wii U)
    Pros: The more successful,  handheld branch remains intact. People choose Nintendo home system as first choice. Larger variety of titles and therefore audience.
    Cons: It is a gamble that third parties will get on board stay on board. Nintendo have a bad rep as a company to deal with. Nintendo will have to concede that their controller and online service (voice chat! ) must also be inline with their competitors. 
    They will be releasing 3 to 4 years later than competitor systems.

    Solution B: expand first and second party studios. Stick with Wii U and N3ds.
    Pros: Hardware Dev is done. Install base exists. Nintendo games don't need more power until 4k is in many more homes. Choosing studios based on strengths and experience  could mean more variety.
    Cons: Finding the right people. If Nintendo could have or wanted to do this they would have. Nx already implied to be new hardware. 

    Solution C: Combine handheld and home into either one device or release a handheld Wii U while continuing to support the home version. Drop 3ds.
    Pros: Games available day one if a HH  WiiU. Streamlined development. More titles  available more frequently.  Shared titles across potentially two devices. Continues to support the one truly successful Wii U feature, off TV play. No need to gamble on courting third party. Could support 3ds BC easily,  an add on could quite easily be made for 3ds games to be played on wii u. The tech  must be there considering the age of the Sony Vita.
    Cons: Gambling with the popular 3ds. Still not going to get third party support from the major players. Pass off N3ds owners (although they seem a bit funked either way). No new audience just bringing together a fracture one. Dev times for Wii U games will be higher than 3ds, will the consumer still pay for 3ds level games, on a system that can run MK8? (Yes the buy NeS games on it). 
  • @ retro... agree, i don't think the NX would get that kind of 3rd party support regardless of it's power, (unless maybe it's built so similarly to the others that a port was utterly trivial, which isn't really Nintendo's style).  i would like to see a Nintendo console with the power and media capabilities of one/ps4 and all the big 3rd party games, but i don't think nintendo will try and i don't think the 3rd parties would be bothered either.

    i don't blame the 3rd parties for the Wii U ports, i blame Nintendo for hobbling it out of the gate.  They chose the gamepad over performance, when it seemed pretty clear all along the gamepad  would be a gimmicky thing only nintendo would make much effort to utilise.  There was never a chance that EA and activision would build their key franchises around the gamepad screen, even if you could think of a 'critical' function it could add to the games.  I wouldn't even be surprised if the 3rd parties had signed up to wii U expecting it to have a bit more horsepower than it ended up with.  I've said all along, if the Wii U had contained maximum 'performance' for it's £300 price, and they'd sold the gamepad as an optional extra, then they might have had a chance at gaining a big market share before the ps4 and bone came along...Nintendo could have had a year or two with the 'best' version of fifa/cod on their hardware, drawing in the punters, so that by the time one/ps4 launch developers may have already been working to wii U as the base spec and the punters think "it's not worth £450 for that marginally shinier version of fifa"..and thus Nintendo take over the world.

    but i digress, this is not the time to imagine a different history so i can have my cake/console and eat/play it...

    the Nintendo NX, eh?  I have no idea what they will do.  But it will probably be a bit odd and different, and also a bit disappointing, and make you go "Hmm, that's quite interesting, but i can't see it replacing the ps4/bone as the first choice consoles".... 


    @Live, interesting stuff...i think in summary they're damned either way!  it's hard to see how they can attract the gamers not buying nintendo stuff (and the games not on nintendo stuff), or not piss off those that have already bought it.
    "Like i said, context is missing."
    http://ssgg.uk
  • Apologies for the small text.  God knows why that happened.
  • The the WiiU can and did have the superior titles though. And they were ported. Releasing before the PS4 and Xbone means even without the gamepad they'd never match their performance.

    Perhaps if they'd ditched the gamepad, titles could have been developed for the Wii U first - as it could have been decently powerful, but releasing first means it would have been notably less powerful than PS4 and Xbone. Also because they wouldn't want to release at the price point Sony and MS did.


    So actually, I think now is their best chance to actually regain parity if they want to go that route.
    It wouldn't cost that much to use off the shelf architecture with a similar performance.

    The recently released games can be cheaply ported - it's probably worth a punt for the big publishers, especially if Nintendo put more effort in which I thought they said they were going to do - to be easier to develop for, and work with etc.

    And new titles can then run on the NX too.
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  • Get third party out of your head, it ain't gonna happen.
  • regmcfly
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    I genuinely reckon this will be a combined console as expected and will be backwards comparable one gen. Handheld will do 3DS (no 3D) and console will do WiiU. NX software? No fuckin clue
  • Is it realistic that a handheld could have Wii U levels of power, at least at a reasonable price?

    Vita is a touch below PS2 levels it seems, and was pricey to start with. I think any hybrid console/handheld would be more like GC/Wii quality.
  • How didn't Nintendo capitalise on the success of the Wii? Do most Wii buyers even know what the WiiU is?
  • JonB wrote:
    Is it realistic that a handheld could have Wii U levels of power, at least at a reasonable price?

    Vita is a touch below PS2 levels it seems, and was pricey to start with. I think any hybrid console/handheld would be more like GC/Wii quality.

    PSP was slightly below PS2. Vita is around PS3 and was released Xmas 2011. NX will be released earliest Xmas 2016. 5 years used to be an entire cycle.

    The Wii U itself is small, remove the disc drive and combine the two parts. Add a screen, a battery and consider the Wii U will be a few years old. I think Nintendo could do a dual screened device with Wii U power at the same dimesnsions as a N3DSxl but probably a bit thicker, maybe double thickness with a taper. It won't be the cheapest thing ever but if it runs your 3DS and Wii U games (do a discless download or usb link thing for Wii U owners) and it becomes affordable.
  • regmcfly
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    I mean, say this comes out in 2017. Say the handheld is 3DS level - without 3D. What is a 2DS going for now? £80? That and a cheap WiiU (by then) can go for £200 I'd reckon.

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