Looking at faraway stuff - The Bear and Badger

davyK

Dinostar77 wrote:

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/black-hole-flashes-unprecedented-star-galaxy-sagittarius-a-sgr-a9056241.html Astronomers have spotted strange, unexplained flashes coming out of our black hole. The huge swirling object at the centre of our galaxy – which is four million times the mass of the Sun, and known as Sagittarius A* – is sending out unusual blasts of radiation that are more powerful than have ever been seen before. And scientists do not know why it is sending out the flashes, despite having watched them in real time........

How does anything come out of a black hole? Some weird physics going on there. Probably quantum effects - that's my stock answer for when something appears to be magical.

superflyninja

That Hawking radiation confuses me in a similar fashion. I thought nothing escaped a black hole, yet it "burps" out radiation? So these more powerful emissions? *shrugs shoulders*

cockbeard

superflyninja wrote:

That Hawking radiation confuses me in a similar fashion. I thought nothing escaped a black hole, yet it "burps" out radiation? So these more powerful emissions? *shrugs shoulders*

I thought it was pretty intuitive, in that there must be a point at which matter is no longer compressible, so where some bike tyres go bang at the end of their life, some let out a constant stream of air. Hawking radiation is basically a slow puncture in a black hole, caused by squeezing too much stuff together. Exactly like blowing a balloon up too far. The energy requirements required to break or fuse the bonds between the more fundamental elements (quarks, prions??, whatever) must at some point exceed the amount of matter available to the black hole

cockbeard

^ Of course that's just my primitive monkey brain looking at what could be happening, there's all kinds of maths underneath that I haven't taken into consideration. But why over-complicate something that's still only a statistical probability, and hasn't been observed up close yet

Dinostar77

All this "stuff" they talk about coming out of a black hole is matter that hasnt passed the event horizon, its swirling around the disk at incredible speeds and super super hot. Jets of super hot plasma have been recorded leaving a black holes disk at almost the speed of light. Once matter does pass the event horizon then it is actually inside the black hole and cant escape. Nothing can. This is where physics breaks down as in chalk board physics we are left with infinite time and infinite mass inside the black hole which is a bad thing I.e. anything leading to an infinity loop.

But someone who understands this better could tell me I'm wrong.

cockbeard

You see this where I fall down. I think that there is reality and whilst physics might break down, logic doesn't (it probably should, but I'm a purely thought experimenter) and therefore there's only so much matter than reach the singularity before it no longer dense enough to sustain itself

GooberTheHat

We need @spacegazelle to pop back in.

Dinostar77

cockbeard wrote:

You see this where I fall down. I think that there is reality and whilst physics might break down, logic doesn't (it probably should, but I'm a purely thought experimenter) and therefore there's only so much matter than reach the singularity before it no longer dense enough to sustain itself

Wouldnt a singularity that couldn't sustain itself become big bang? I.e. another universe? I thought the origins of the universe started from a singularity that expanded/exploded and became the universe.

Dinostar77

https://www.space.com/38091-the-existence-of-black-holes.html

By Paul Sutter who is an astrophysicist at The Ohio State University and the chief scientist at COSI Science Center

Not sure if this helps or adds to the confusion.

cockbeard

Not sure, for me that's no longer talking about how particles work with each other, but about the possibilities that may happen in a micro/macro multiverse reality

I don';t see any reason why small things shouldn't act any different to big things. No reason, a shrew's heart beats at 1500 bpm, an elephant at 30 bpm. Those two things are almost the same size when looking on a cosmic scale. So why shouldn't particles act similarly diffferent at sizes, uncertainty principle doesn't tell me that an object exists in two places, it tells me I'm too stupid to know which of the places it exists in

As for black holes and Hawking radiation, I think he was specifically refuting his earlier assertion, and realised that these jets were normally perpendicular to the accretion discs, giving the impression to me that it's accretion disc in, and jet out. Just that makes sense when you look at it

davyK

Dinostar77 wrote:

All this "stuff" they talk about coming out of a black hole is matter that hasnt passed the event horizon, its swirling around the disk at incredible speeds and super super hot. Jets of super hot plasma have been recorded leaving a black holes disk at almost the speed of light. Once matter does pass the event horizon then it is actually inside the black hole and cant escape. Nothing can. This is where physics breaks down as in chalk board physics we are left with infinite time and infinite mass inside the black hole which is a bad thing I.e. anything leading to an infinity loop. But someone who understands this better could tell me I'm wrong.

That's my "understanding" of a black hole.

superflyninja

So I googled Hawking radiation. The explanations talk about particle pairs popping into existence near the event horizon and the positive particle escaping (somehow) and the negative mass particle getting sucked into the black hole thus over time the black hole will vanish (if not fed from other sources).

All that just raises more questions lol.

davyK

Hmmm....think I remember that.

Maybe has something to do with entanglement?

Dinostar77

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-49648746

"Water found for first time on potentially habitable planet

Astronomers have for the first time discovered water in the atmosphere of a planet orbiting within the habitable zone of a distant star...."

I expect we'll add more exoplanets that have water to the list when the next generation of telescopes launch and can detect earth sized planets. 4000 exoplanets found so far limited to rather large sized planets due to limits of technology for now.

GooberTheHat

Statistically, there is a 100% percent chance of life on that planet.

cockbeard

GooberTheHat wrote:

Statically, there is a 100% percent chance of life on that planet.

Huh?? Is that a play on that everywhere so far we've confirmed liquid water we've confirmed life as well?

acemuzzy

One for one

cockbeard

Ahh, guessed so, same way that every other planet is 50-50, it either has or it hasn't

Dinostar77

Chances of microbial life in our own solar system are pretty high, we just need new probes with the right instruments for detecting life. Cassini flew through one of the water jets erupting out of Enceladus (Saturn moon) and found complex organic molecules (as discussed in Brian Cox Solar System series). The evidence suggests that there is that there is a liquid ocean underneath the surface of Enceladus. Same idea for Europa, Triton, Ganyamede (water oceans). Ceres, Mars have ice. Pluto has ice volcanoes and potentially a liquid ocean (which was a suprise to me in the Brian Cox aforementionedseries).

Hopefully NASA will fund the proposed mission to Neptune and Uranus and their moons. Other than the voyager flyby we dont know much else. Neptune's cloud layer is supposed to contain water (planet has no surface layer). Just shows how little we know and how much there is to learn about our own solar system.

cockbeard

But I don't think (could be wrong) that any of those oceans or ice are water are they?

superflyninja

I think with Europa the surface is ice but beneath is a massively deep moon-wide liquid ocean

cockbeard

Interesting, silly thought experiment happened (well thinking really) would pressure change possible evolution of life. Just I think of single-celled organisms as being pretty weak, but then those deep sea hot vent living things have cell walls made from metals and silica don;t they?

Dinostar77

cockbeard wrote:

But I don't think (could be wrong) that any of those oceans or ice are water are they?

Europa, Triton, Ganymede and Enceladus are supposedly liquid water oceans.

Dinostar77

cockbeard wrote:

Interesting, silly thought experiment happened (well thinking really) would pressure change possible evolution of life. Just I think of single-celled organisms as being pretty weak, but then those deep sea hot vent living things have cell walls made from metals and silica don;t they?

Looking at the abundance of life at the thermal vents deep in our oceans at pressures which would kill humans, may give us an idea of what life may look like in the oceans of these moons. Tbh who knows without probes going there and finding out.

Single celled organisms like microbes are incredibly tough, they can lie dormant for eons, thrive under incredible pressure and heat. Even live in the vacuum of space.

cockbeard

Certainly seems that life, despite us spending generations thinking it was precious and rare, is a persistent little bugger

davyK

Those tardigrades are tough little buggers too.

cockbeard

"sex mad and retard strong"

bad_hair_day

Your school report?

cockbeard

Haha, we must have met

bad_hair_day

You shook me all night long

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