Politics of the Free - It’s because Democrats, stupid.
  • Paul the sparky
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    But a few adverts on twitter and Facebook isn't going to affect anyone, right?

    I've certainly changed my tune on that. Still can't understand why so many people take utter bullshit at face value and refuse to dig deeper for themselves, or even to acknowledge that what they're reading is lies when it's pointed out to them and debunked with facts.
  • GooberTheHat
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    It's frustrating, and it's not really clear, but the most compelling argument I've heard is that people want to believe it. They have been pushed and pushed into more polarised political beliefs, to such an extent that their identity is heavily defined by their political position and political party. To accept criticism of that is to lose part of what makes you you. So they don't accept criticism, they double down and swallow the bullshit because it reinforces their world view and their understanding of themselves. Plus they are surrounded by people (on the TV and the internet in particular) that agree with them and reinforce the idea that the information they are getting is valid.
  • GooberTheHat
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    The best way to counter it is to educate people about it, but I honestly think a large proportion (especially older Americans) of the population are a lost cause now.
  • Still can't understand why so many people take utter bullshit at face value and refuse to dig deeper for themselves, or even to acknowledge that what they're reading is lies when it's pointed out to them and debunked with facts.

    Just remember, the same is being said on the other side. How can liberals believe all the lies from the great evil media? The great hack was eye opening not because it should that there are lies on Facebook etc. We all knew that. But the complexity and frequency is astounding.

    It's not easy to question what suits your own views.
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  • The problem with 21st century politics is the internet and the role it plays in spreading propaganda and disinformation. The right control the internet and targeted social media which basically means uncapped campaigns. Elections won by mass targeting swing voters in a strategical manner. Not to mention there is a correlation between winning elections and how much money one is willing to spend. Campaign caps are there for a reason.

    With those caps circumvented online, the party with the deepest pocket wins by default in a war of attrition. And we know where most billionaires stand. Oligarchy becomes all but inevatable.

    Don't believe me? You can already see the effects worldwide with mainstream politics shifting to the right. The old balance between left and right is gone.
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  • GooberTheHat
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    The right don't control the internet, they're just very good at using it.
  • I'm pretty sure Jack is a Nazi at least.
  • The right don't control the internet, they're just very good at using it.

    They kindof do with fb at their side....
    At least in the west and especially with elections.

    The right don't control the internet, just the strategical choke points that matter. They also control the media of the blue collar, think Tabloids and stuff (print/online). The working class reading and watching socialist rags? Not on Murdoch, Bannon and Trump's watch....
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  • GooberTheHat
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    Warren is not doing so well in New Hampshire, Bernie is leading with PB in a close second. Biden is doing poorly as predicted.

    I reckon it'll be a Sanders / Bloomberg head to head. Apparently Bloomberg has spent 200m so far in advertising, and has another 400m available. Of the other candidates (not including Steyer because he's got no chance) Bernie is in the best shape financially.

    I imagine Bernie will likely pick up the Warren votes when she eventually drops out, with Biden's and PB's votes going to Bloomberg. I think Bloomberg is trying to drum up turnout in the super Tuesday states from people that wouldn't normally turn out, and making the case that he's the only one who can beat trump, especially now he's announced he's doubling his advertising spend.



    Bernie could go into super Tuesday with 20% of delegates already, and even if Bloomberg could get 30% of the delegates available on super Tuesday, which is doubtful as I doubt more than two or three of the candidates (not including Yang, he's already gone) would have dropped out by then, which would mean that he would need to pick up 64% of the remaining delegates.

    He could force a contested convention though if he gets close enough to Bernie, which would be a bit of a disaster in terms of trying to beat Trump.
  • I assume that video will just show a massive pile of money. All I've heard about Bloomberg so far is that he's going to spend shit loads to try and win, and it doesn't seem to alarm people as much as you might expect.
  • GooberTheHat
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    It's a pretty slick advert that I can see working for a lot of people. It's one of those seemingly deeply sincere things, that doesn't actually say very much.

    He is spending shit loads to try and win. Unlike Trump though this is actually all his own money. There are plenty that are concerned, but not enough, although I imagine the next Democratic President that isn't Bloomberg will look to bring in some sort of campaign finance reforms.
  • It's not just how much you're willing to spend in what's basically an uncapped election campaign. It's also about dominating and owning the media landscape, especially that of the blue collar. The right has planted the flag there firmly with tabloids and fb. It's going to be an uphill struggle for the left to win territory there. And that's not even considering winning an election.
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  • GooberTheHat
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    But I think that is also what Bloomberg is doing. He may not have the prevelence of the right wing media machine in terms of TV broadcast news, but it shouldn't be forgotten that he does own a media organisation. And if you don't think he has very specifically targeted his social media adds I think you're underestimating him and his team.

    He probably is the only candidate that could compete with the Trump Campaign in terms of spending power. I'd like to think that Bernie would win in spite of Trump's spending, and the majority of the polls indicate that's what will happen, but it'll be interesting to see how close Bloomberg gets off the back of this unorthodox campaign.
  • Trump doesnt spend his own money.

    In a crowded field, Sanders so far has raised just under $109 million. Trump, with no competition, just under $145 million. If Sanders gets the nomination its not that unthinkable that he'll raise even more as the party coalesces around him.
  • I'm not sure I get how bloomberg gets to skip the early rounds. Is it just because he didn't need to raise funding? Because it probably helped him by not being in the debate shit shows.
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  • GooberTheHat
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    Trump doesnt spend his own money.

    In a crowded field, Sanders so far has raised just under $109 million. Trump, with no competition, just under $145 million. If Sanders gets the nomination its not that unthinkable that he'll raise even more as the party coalesces around him.
    I don't think anyone here is claiming Trump is spending his own money

    Including superpacs trump easily has over $300m to spend. I'm sure Bernie will raise more than he has currently if he gets the nomination, but he won't come close to Trump's spending power.

    Edit: that's wrong, he has raised over $300m excluding super pacs.
  • $300 million is a combination of Trump and RNC. Trump has $102 million cash on hand after money the RNC transferred to him.
  • GooberTheHat
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    Cash on hand. He's already spent a tone though. Bernie has what, $20m cash on hand? And trump controls the RNC for all intents and purposes.
  • The RNC will be spending on downballot races. 23 Republican Senators are up for re-election compared to only 12 Democrats. All seats in the House are up for election. There's also 11 Governerships and a ton of state legislature races.
  • Man, the amount of Why Bernie Winning New Hampshire is Bad for Him takes out there are unreal.
  • GooberTheHat
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    538, who seem to be fairly reliable with this sort of thing, have Bernie at a 32% chance of getting a pledged delegate majority (much higher than anyone else) and a 52% chance of a tie.

    Given that Biden, PB, Klobuchar and Bloomberg are likely to eat into each others vote, the longer they all stay in the race the better for Sanders.
  • Bernie is good. I hope he don't get fucking Corbynned.
  • Bernie is was more charismatic than Corbyn. He can really hold his own in debates and discussions.

    Doesn't stop the press trying to ignore him or downplay him at nearly every turn though
    I'm falling apart to songs about hips and hearts...
  • GooberTheHat
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    Bloomberg is in second place, at 19%, according to national opinion polls. Bernie is leading with 31%.
  • Yeah, but we all know what winning the popular vote gets you, eh?
  • An Emerson poll from today has Sanders 29%, Biden 22%, Bloomberg 14%.
  • GooberTheHat
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    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51566470
    A witness in Julian Assange's extradition hearing will claim President Donald Trump offered the Wikileaks founder a pardon if he said Russia was not involved in leaking emails during the US election.

    That there are still as many people as there are that support him makes me think the US is doomed to fall apart over the next 50 years.
  • acemuzzy
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    Obviously we'd all believe Assange of he said that
  • regmcfly
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    Could of

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