Science fiction love and hate
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  • Always been a massive sci fi film fan, seen pretty much every science fiction film I've found, but never watched the Star Trek films.  Never liked the tv show, always thought it was rubbish compared to Star Wars, obviously comparing a serial to a movie is unfair but as a kid I didn't care.  Star Wars had Darth Vader, the best villain of all time, Star Trek had obvious bits of plasticine stuck on bad actors heads. The Star Trek films looked much the same as the serials to me, all pomp, posturing and no substance.

    So I've realised it might be time to watch the films, it would if I found myself enjoying them as there's a good amount to get into.

    Stuck on the original motion picture from 1979, black screen, twee space music starts, 2 minutes of black screen later twee music ends and paramount logo finally comes up.  Ok here we go this time, some space ships flying past the camera, they look shit but give it a chance.  They get blown up, it all looks shit, the dudes with red plasticine get killed it's all good.

    20 minutes of space command twaddle later we are going to get on the enterprise, and my gosh Captain Kirk can't believe how good she looks he's shaking his head.  On the ship and immediately there's contrived personal conflicts and forced affection.

    The rest of the film has some better bits but is largely shit IMO.

    Compare to the opening of Star Wars, the text crawl and music is fantastic, then the rebel ship fleeing the empirical destroyer, both looks stunning, one of the most iconic opening shots in cinema. The empire boards the rebel ship and an intense laser battle breaks out before this dark lord dude enters and captures the princess, but not before she hides something in a damn robot.

    Any Trekkies here want to help me out?  Am I missing something or do you actually just enjoy the pomp and sillyness of Star Trek?  

    I hear the second film is the best of the series so I'm watching that tonight.
    Today is the shadow of tomorrow.
  • The "villain" and the a lot of the ending of the OG Trek film is closer to hard SciFi than the swashbuckling of Star Wars.

    Big fan of the scene when they enter the V'ger cloud, the music is great.

  • Never thought the films were much cop. But have enjoyed bits and bobs of both trek and wars throughout my life. Wars for the proper adventury silliness, Trek (at least the best of the series) for getting into some interesting concepts. (I will leave quality of approach and execution re the various ideas that trek gets into out of this, as it's a fucking mixed bag of ham fisted, good, and sometimes sorkin-esque.)

    ST: Voyager my fav of all the series, tbh, but probably largely down to timing of release for me. There is an element with all SF, both TV and Film, of lauding average stuff, or clinging to certain shows because SF has traditionally few and far between. (Relative to cop shows and/or action movies, for instance.)

    IMO TYVM ETC.
    I'm still great and you still love it.
  • Also the motion picture is responsible for popularising this magnificent piece of kit:

  • Never been a fan of Star Trek in particular but thought that First Contact worked well as a stand alone film and that the Borg are a pretty menacing baddie. Quite enjoyed the recent 2 as well, first more than the Cumberbatch jobbie.
  • Ok so they're doing credits in the second one, much improved from a black screen.

    I liked the concept of the villain in the first trek film, but it was handled badly (mainly came through the pant-less bald sexy female), and Deckers constant grinning towards her was hilarious and overdone.
    Today is the shadow of tomorrow.
  • Tempy wrote:
    Also the motion picture is responsible for popularising this magnificent piece of kit:

    Love that, but the radiophonic workshop (and others) had been doing similar effect for almost 3 decades prior.  It's the same concept for how the tardis take off and landing sounds were made.
    Today is the shadow of tomorrow.
  • Yeah but they didn't call their instrument the BLASTER BEAM did they
  • no they called their instruments things like 'wobbulator' heh. Gotta love em.

    So far the Wrath of Khan is much stronger, just bizarre how different it is.
    Today is the shadow of tomorrow.
  • regmcfly
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    I have issues with anything conforming to asimovs three laws of robotics, particularly modern things. They were interesting and important for a lot of reasons, but there's so much more interesting elements out there.

    I am starting to get into environmental Sci fi which worries me as I may end up like Mark Kenmore, but I found new appreciation in Silent Running, and enjoy the bits between the plot in planet of the apes. Even seeing Blade Runner last month, I was more interested in the smog scape and the prospect of fucking out of earth for the Offord colonies - a footnote in the film (obv more substantial in the novel.)
  • b0r1s
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    Star Wars isn't Sci-Fi. We've done this before. I'm a big Star Wars fan and prefer it over Trek, but Trek is Sci-Fi. It generally deals with contemporary issues of the time by abstracting the situation. E.g. Undiscovered Country is the end of the Cold War, Voyage Home comenting in climate change, insurrection the gulf war and the cost of human life vs human greed. As films they really can't be compared. Star Wars is all about family drama and blowing shit up.
  • You've got to take Star Trek, tv at least, in the context of the time - three years before the moon landing and a time of racial tension in the States.

    Saying ST is not as good as SW is oblivious to history, culture, racism, misogyny, American foreign policy, technology and much besides. The films naturally followed from a huge fanbase, but if you can't appreciate context then I can't help you like the films more.
  • b0r1s
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    Actually Billy just picking up on your line is pomp, posturing and no substance. You couldn't be further from the truth. Yes Kirk et al in their 50's were ridiculous and that might be what you are focusing on, but the actual stories have more to them than Star Wars.
  • b0r1s
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    And what Gazelle said
  • regmcfly
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    Billy wrote:
    no they called their instruments things like 'wobbulator' heh. Gotta love em.

    So far the Wrath of Khan is much stronger, just bizarre how different it is.

    Wait till you get to the fuckin WHALES

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    They're my favourite thing in all the trek. Again, see my focus on environmental Sci fi
  • b0r1s
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    regmcfly wrote:
    Billy wrote:
    no they called their instruments things like 'wobbulator' heh. Gotta love em.

    So far the Wrath of Khan is much stronger, just bizarre how different it is.

    Wait till you get to the fuckin WHALES

    Don't knock the whales you heathen!!

    "Computer hello computer" is Shakespearean

    :-)
  • b0r1s
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    regmcfly wrote:
    They're my favourite thing in all the trek. Again, see my focus on environmental Sci fi

    Oh ok
  • regmcfly
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    I LOVE THE WHALES
  • b0r1s
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    Look up
  • regmcfly
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    You too!
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    It me
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    regmcfly wrote:
    You too!

    I did. It's all white
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    Racist
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    My ceiling is
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    Back on topic, Mad Max and Even well-e do a fine line in enviro Sci fi and again are really rated by me
  • Actually down on the planet it's all pretty gripping but back on the enterprise I just can't enjoy Kirk and his band of merry goons, smirking away to each other, a woman blows a space whistle to announce kirk's entrance haha wtf.
    Today is the shadow of tomorrow.
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    Billy wrote:
    Actually down on the planet it's all pretty gripping but back on the enterprise I just can't enjoy Kirk and his band of merry goons, smirking away to each other, a woman blows a space whistle to announce kirk's entrance haha wtf.

    No doubt doing zero G beer bongs on the holodeck
  • b0r1s
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    Tbf his mighty girth had to be tugged into the bridge so it was maritime law that required the whistle.

    @Reg Mad Max yep the original was ahead of its time with environmental impact. Does the new film provide context to this generation? I don't know not being a massive fan of the remake (Usual Theron excepted comment).
  • b0r1s
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    Actually if we are talking good recent Sci-Fi then Children of Men has to go pretty high up the list. And thanks to its avoidance of an over teched future it hasn't aged badly.
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