Brexit: Go Hard Or Go Home
  • But the YOH Space Elevator that grounds it will be your eventual downfall when the tea and Wensleydale supplies run out. Paul and Barry Chuckle will assume power in the chaos and rule you with an iron fist.
  • ’Appen they might. ’Appen they might not.
  • poprock wrote:
    Blue Swirl wrote:
    I don't care what symbol is in front of the number that means Monies, as long as the number of Monies I have in my bank account is the correct one. Call them Quatloos for all I fucking care.

    What they’re called isn’t the issue though. It’s about how much one currency is worth against others, and what one pound or one euro actually buys you. You’ll have the right amount of monies in your bank account, but things might cost you more monies to buy.

    There's more to it.

    Imagine if country X has some problem. If that problem can be fixed with adjusting the amount of money in supply the world then a currency based around 28 countries that are competing is really difficult.

    (so if Italy needs to expand the amount of money in its local economy, say to increase exports of olive oil vs new competitor Brazil by devaluing currency. Would all the countries agree to have their currency devalued? Perhaps but certainly not with the same speed)
  • I see it as spreading risk. Collectively the currency is more stable. Whereas Big Dave would like to have a separate currency so that UK Plc are able to bet the farm on occasional big wins because that’s how investment banking works. Right?
  • Brief Newsnight debate on the EU with Caroline Lucas, Ken Livingston and Giles Frasier. Starts 18 mins in.
  • poprock wrote:
    I see it as spreading risk. Collectively the currency is more stable. Whereas Big Dave would like to have a separate currency so that UK Plc are able to bet the farm on occasional big wins because that’s how investment banking works. Right?

    Who is it spreading risks for?

    And is this a good thing? Should risky policies by X be covered by prudent Y?

    If you elect a government to deal with money policy only for that policy to be managed by 20+ other countries each with their own separate interest?




  • Yossarian
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    Which risky monetary policies would one country be able to pursue in the Eurozone?
  • If we leave the EU, Boris gets in, and Trump wins, then i may move to Scotland.  Or Sweden, i like them too.
    Today is the shadow of tomorrow.
  • Is this the old person thread, the pension thread or the politics thread?

    Where did i put my glasses?
    Today is the shadow of tomorrow.
  • I'm not really sure.
  • They’re on top of your head.
  • davyK
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    The biggest problem, just as it was with the Scottish referendum, is an absence of facts presented to the rational layman.  Faced with that and having no evidence to suggest being in is very bad (else we would feel it?), then better in the club than be out of it.

    I suspect EU power also curtails a runaway conservative or labour government, which can only be a good thing.

    The EU needs reforming. Doesn't mean we should leave.

    A lot is made of us putting more in than getting out, but if that is the case (again - where are the facts?), isn't that the point? That the richer countries help to pull up the others? As long as the others get off their arses and make good use of EU funding to become more self-sufficient then surely that's a a good thing in the long term? Jesus - we give money to India and it has a space programme!

    Membership needs to be controlled better to ensure this which would have to be in scope of EU reform.
  • If we leave Europe does Michael Gove get to choose our human rights?
  • I think if we leave the EU we'll finally be able to deport the cunt, surely?
  • If we leave Europe does Michael Gove get to choose our human rights?

    4820.jpg?w=940&q=20&auto=format&usm=12&fit=max&dpr=2&s=f5f1646af5ca39cdd6956e0ef949516e
  • djchump wrote:
    I think if we leave the EU we'll finally be able to deport decapitate the cunt, surely?

  • poprock wrote:
    Brilliant piece here from Dr Andy Williamson. He’s an EU analyst, critic and adviser. Does a good job of explaining what happens in various democratic bodies (EU included) in layman’s terms. Here, he takes the most common misconceptions and pro-exit arguments, and debunks them. I’m going to link and then quote a bit from the intro and conclusion. http://www.andywilliamson.com/10-points-to-consider-about-brexit-and-the-eu-referendum/
    We’re about to be inundated with a lot of pointless noise. If the pre-whining is anything to go by, most of it will be wrong. Frankly (as you might have gathered), I’d like the whole thing to just go away. It’s a pointless debate detracting us from things that really matter (like reforming the EU for the modern age or tax avoiding global corporations). In short, the idea of leaving the EU is somewhere between bat-shit crazy and economic suicide. Perhaps the most depressing thing is that this referendum, and an entire country’s future, is at risk of being decided through ignorance. Ignorance led by mis-information and a false sense of identity that fails to grasp that this is 2016, not 1816. We’re being fed a diet of half-truths and outright lies based on short-termism when the real issues are not just complex but fundamental to our economic and geopolitical future.
    Essentially, an exit from the EU would leave us with all the disadvantages of still being a member, but none of the power to vote on changing them. Like Norway. And it would add a whole lot of new and exciting disadvantages on top.
    Norway doesn't pay billions to be part of the EU, does more trade with it than UK does, and doesn't have to comply with its fishing laws. There are more ups than downs for them.
    "..the pseudo-Left new style.."
  • IanHamlett wrote:
    Norway doesn't pay billions to be part of the EU, does more trade with it than UK does, and doesn't have to comply with its fishing laws. There are more ups than downs for them.

    Yeah but no. 

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway%E2%80%93European_Union_relations
    There can be no rebirth without a dark night of the soul, a total annihilation of all that you believed in and thought that you were. Inayat Khan
  • Is there a bit on that page that conflicts with what I said?
    "..the pseudo-Left new style.."
  • Yossarian
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    How about this? http://news.sky.com/story/1504911/britain-is-best-staying-in-eu-says-norway

    It's worth remembering that Norway has a fucktonne of oil too, which gives it an incredibly stable base to its economy. The oilfields can't pack up and move to Germany like our financial sector can.
  • Norway has a fuckload of oil which wasn't spunked on frittered shite like low tax. I wonder if a Norway model Britain would accept ten pound beers or whatever.

    Come on pick one ultra capitalist eu or ultra high tax Norway.

    http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2016/02/28/is-greece-not-another-compelling-reason-to-vote-for-brexit-on-23rd-june/

    Is very good Imo.
  • I'm not holding Norway up as an example of what UK would be outside of EU, but I don't think it works as a cautionary tale either.
    "..the pseudo-Left new style.."
  • Escape
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    What about the prices of electrical and sustenance items?

    Most of our leccies arrive on the Continent from China, don't they? And then via haulage through the Channel Tunnel? If that's the case, what might incentivise France to avoid a new levy?

    And food, since a lot of ours is now imported? If Europe were to lead UK farmers in demanding more for their goods?

    As an anti-nationalist, I'm usually in kneejerk favour of unity before I arrive at yer fleshed-out thought, but from the get-go, it doesn't feel sensible to cut off the leg because the foot has gangrene. I'm proper dubious about the benefits, especially Trumpisms.

    England has an IT and (failed) banking industry, not so much pottery, steel, textiles, coal... Renewables in Scotland?
  • Yossarian
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    IanHamlett wrote:
    I'm not holding Norway up as an example of what UK would be outside of EU, but I don't think it works as a cautionary tale either.
    I'm not sure that it works as a comparison at all, but it is interesting to note just how much they've had to to accept in order to have access to the free market, and that's coming from a much stronger bargaining position than we'll have.
  • I cannot stand the negative campaigning from the pro EU group. It makes me want to vote to leave. It falls straight into the hands of Boris and co.

    Fucking Hollande with his "beware of leaving we'll fuck you up" yeah that's going to be great at persuading people - to fucking stick two fingers up at smug French twats. Fucks sake.

    It's own goal after own goal. Why do they insist on sticking to this "rule by fear" 80s mantra it won't work for much longer. Look at Scottish, how close that was. People are wising up to it and others are good at countering it (sturgeon, boris etc)

    The anti EU group are so positive: " we can be stronger, we'll definitely get a good trade agreement, we can control our borders..." Who cares if it's true or not it sounds can do and positive.

    Who responds well to "vote to leave and your children will die"?

  • UK science research is going to be fucked if we leave. Most large projects are one of collabaration funded by a large EU pot. Leaving, and the associated brain-drain would decimate the physical sciences the in UK. For this reason alone we should stay.
  • Also, the thought of Boris having control of British Human rights is somewhat terrifying.
  • Kow
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    An EU free Cameron and Trump in the Whitehouse would be some combo.
  • GooberTheHat
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    It's a year old, but this is a pretty good summary of the economic impact of migration to the UK.
  • some out folks seem to reference Switzerland and Norway, but I don't think they realise how different the uk is, Norway and Switzerland are great but the uk is so different it's a false comparison.  With that out of the equation it doesn't seem to leave much.  Certainly farage hasn't done us any bloody favours, but who knows, perhaps an out vote with a Corbyn led government could be good. 

    I'm still inclined to vote in, if only because being in the eu might be the best therapy for all the fucking wankers who see leaving the eu as excuse to close the borders and get all ukip.
    Today is the shadow of tomorrow.

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