Racist - The Bear and Badger

acemuzzy

It was in another thread. Gonz got pwned.

acemuzzy

Universal page turn of truth.

[Deleted User]

Weirdly enough, westerners are more offended on behalf of the Chinese than the actual Chinese. Go figure.

monkey

Yeah, false equivalence and all that but if he’d written a load of shit about the English I’d probably have just found it funny. Bit hard to get worked up about historical figures holding historical opinions.

GooberTheHat

There's also not much to do with the information other than go "oh, that's a bit shit".

Yossarian

Abandon the theory of relativity, anyone who uses it is condoning racism.

WorKid

It's just a theory anyway.

[Deleted User]

acemuzzy wrote:

It was in another thread. Gonz got pwned.

Muz is a racist don't believe a word he says

Facewon

Calling them muzzers is racist mate, c'mon.

Wait, shit.

Kow

Hoisted by your own retard.

Skerret

Razz a duzza from a muzza near a pizza joint in Suzza

Facewon

https://twitter.com/MaajidNawaz/status/1008724249794826246

Well, that's an expensive way to work out he shouldn't have been on the list.

afgavinstan

Rather enjoying Doug Stanhope v Tommy Robinson fans on twitter this evening.

JRPC

Just listened to a podcast conversation between Glenn Lowry and Coleman Hughes on The Glenn Show. It’s an excellent hour of listening for anyone with an eye on American race stuff (as is The Glenn Show generally).

He may have already come up here, but Hughes is just this kid, an undergraduate doing Philosophy I think, but he's sharp as a tack and been shot to stardom recently having written two pretty confronting things for Quilette (boo Quilette boo!) about race in America.

He’s sort of like an anti- Ta Nehisi Coates, who he mentions a lot and who despite getting brownie points for writing the current run of Captain America, is not someone I'm a great fan of.

From what I can tell his basic point is that the degree of systemic racism in the states is generally being exaggerated and that there are other significant factors at play including cultural factors which aren’t being talked about.

It’s challenging stuff for sure, but agree or not, these are well written and well fleshed-out arguments which I would say are near-essential reading if you’re following this conversation. He's one to watch.

First one The Racism Treadmill which started the whole thing off and then I reckon even more controversially, Black American Culture and the Wealth Gap.

JonB

Loath to click on those, but I did try the second one. Got through the first 4 or 5 paragraphs.

It's utter drivel.

Yossarian

Unrelated: I stumbled across this the other day and found it interesting.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/7/26/17613844/racial-diversity-poll-twitter-white-people

Facewon

I might read some of it, but why would I choose it over Cornell West?

hunk

JonB wrote:

Loath to click on those, but I did try the second one. Got through the first 4 or 5 paragraphs. It's utter drivel.

Both are horrible fucking utter drivel.

Yossarian wrote:

Unrelated: I stumbled across this the other day and found it interesting. https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/7/26/17613844/racial-diversity-poll-twitter-white-people

Identity politics, such a horrible dirty tactic.

Tempy

Coates gets “Brownie Points” for his current run on Captain America instead of his nearly 20 years of award winning journalism and authorship, but you aren’t a fan.

But this undergrad kid who supports my beliefs, there’s a horse I can hitch my cart to with no problems.

So incredibly transparent. You’re supposed to challenge your beliefs, not acquiesce to them.

GooberTheHat

GooberTheHat

Don't throw Tempy a softball.

JRPC

Actually, I haven't read his Captain America stuff yet so maybe I am being a bit generous there.

Tempy

The second article seems to be rife with issues early on. I’m no scholar when it comes to American history but... white people in the North benefited from slavery massively too. They just redirected towards industry whereas the South doubled down on slavery and tried to secede. The inequality of America is built on the backs of those who prospered due to slavery, but were smart enough to channel that capital into industry in a period when it mattered. Not many of the people who were given the opportunity to do that were black, possibly because of the South. Also the whole civil war thing happened, which further separated the former Union slave owners form their former Confederates. By virtue of everything being torn to shit.

I’d rather leave a rebuttal of it to people who’re far more informed though. It’s not my area. It just feels like it’s shifing and selective in its points. The whole thing about black wages skyrocketing, again as no expert it feels like a wilful misinterpretation of the percentages of the population.

Brooks

Anything that refers to summat as nebulous as 'culture' as a factor in much is going to be shit.

JonB

Tempy wrote:

The second article seems to be rife with issues early on. I’m no scholar when it comes to American history but... white people in the North benefited from slavery massively too. They just redirected towards industry whereas the South doubled down on slavery and tried to secede. The inequality of America is built on the backs of those who prospered due to slavery, but were smart enough to channel that capital into industry in a period when it mattered. Not many of the people who were given the opportunity to do that were black, possibly because of the South. Also the whole civil war thing happened, which further separated the former Union slave owners form their former Confederates. By virtue of everything being torn to shit.

I'm no expert either, but that's was my immediate thinking as well. The statistic about the modern wealth of different states is quite clearly meaningless taken in isolation like that and signifies a bad faith argument right from the start.

Tempy

I think a lot of it is cherry-picking stats. My American friends tell me stuff like the Cellphone ownership or College spending versus visible spending is dumb because, well, a lot of black people can't even get into College to spend the money on it, because of the systematic issues there with things like housing segregation and so on. The second half about "being taught to make wealth" is total bull as well, the idea that the Government shouldn't be expected to right the wrongs of previous generations and it's all down to the downtrodden to pull themselves up is naive.

trippy

JRPC wrote:

Actually, I haven't read his Captain America stuff yet so maybe I am being a bit generous there.

Somebody slept in the knife drawer last night.

JRPC

Tempy wrote:

Coates gets “Brownie Points” for his current run on Captain America instead of his nearly 20 years of award winning journalism and authorship, but you aren’t a fan. But this undergrad kid who supports my beliefs, there’s a horse I can hitch my cart to with no problems. So incredibly transparent. You’re supposed to challenge your beliefs, not acquiesce to them.

You seem to be taking me there to be endorsing everything this guy says because I’m linking to it, but you shouldn’t assume that. This is just an extremely well written and structured argument.

It may well be that there are perfectly good knockdowns to all of it, but asking your american friend what he thinks certainly isn’t isn’t going to be one of them.

I don’t think there have been any meaningful rebuttals to this as far but I'd be interested to read one.

As for Coates, I’m not massively familiar with him really, but from what I’ve read of his and what I've heard other people say of him, the man is like the Terminator of black identity politics. To me this is a backwards and dangerous game that reinforces racial dividing lines when we should be acknowledging our common humanity and just getting on with it.

I understand he writes very well and he certainly seems to persuade a lot of people, but this way of thinking is just a moral dead end.

For one thing, just imagine if these articles hadn’t been written by a young, black liberal academic. The way things are right now, a white guy, liberal or not, simply could not make these same arguments and expect to walk away (or very likely even get the article published in the first place). That's a big problem.

Who you are and what colour your skin is should simply be irrelevant when we’re trying to figure out what’s actually going on.

Yossarian

Fuck’s sake JR. Pull your head out of this alt-right bullshit-hole you’ve fallen into. Srsly. That post above is utter fucking horseshit.

JRPC

Yossarian wrote:

Fuck’s sake JR. Pull your head out of this alt-right bullshit-hole you’ve fallen into. Srsly.

To call anything I've said there "alt-right", well first off is a truly hideous accusation to make, but would be to also accuse people like Glenn Lowry and John McWhorter and yes absolutely people like Steven Pinker and Richard Dawkins and Joe Rogan (not to mention the said young, black liberal academic who wrote the fucking piece), who I can tell you agree with everything I'm saying there, of being alt-right also.

That's a fact you just have to deal with.

Howdy, Stranger!

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