On the Vagaries of Liking Things
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  • Let me open with this: nothing I have ever loved is above criticism. I know you know this but it is still important that YOU know I KNOW THIS. I am not looking for any pitiful thing when I proclaim: I LOVE THIS. Perhaps you can say I am doing this or that (let me say this about that) for some affirmation from the Universe. Or from friends or revered creative people. But really I am just saying I love this because I really love this. I love Bioshock Infinite. You know this. I love Blood On The Tracks by Bob Dylan. You know this. I love Blade Runner. You know this.


    So let me continue on with some things you didn't know: When I started writing I was a member of the now disbanded Smile Shop. Jon Hunt and John Lane ran it. I learned everything I now use daily from these two men and a select group of writers, thinkers and philosophers. They taught me to say what I say better and to say what I didn't think of saying, full stop. The biggest influence on my writing style and in many, many ways my approach to art, was a man named Ian Wagner.


    Ian Wagner was and I am told still is a rather special human being who loves art from every sense available to him. He once punched a guy for dissing The Beach Boys. Overreaction? No. He dealt out swift and vital punishment for a lack of intellectual faculties. Ian was the guy who taught me that criticisms of creative work always need passion. If you are prepared to shit on someone's most loved thing, you best get your words in order.


    This brings me to my next thing. When I love things, I stick by them. I say “hey! I love this thing and you should too!” Bioshock Infinite to me, and sometimes I think to me alone, is a perfect game. There is nothing I would change or trim or otherwise mess with. I know this is not an opinion widely accepted. People were falling on top of each other to proclaim that the game was a sham. Whether this is the odious assertion that it is a “Nazi Disneyland” or that its violence is gratutitous, I have one place for these criticisms: that part of my brain where I don't want to think about bad things.


    Let's unpack some things about Bioshock Infinite and see if it holds up to scrutiny. Claim: The game revels in racist ideas and signifiers and does not expand on them in any meaningful way. Ken Levine admitted that the game is not wholly occupied with Racism as its central theme. It is occupied with the story of Booker DeWitt and Elizabeth. It is not offering any resolution or deep insight into racism. It is instead offering it as a detail in a personal human story. Booker DeWitt is a bad man. “Only blood can repay blood.” The game is offering up, as the original did, that when ideologies override basic human compassion things get bad. Self-hate is a big part of why Bioshock as a series is so compelling. They ask the individual to look hard at themselves and question why it is that these elements are so pernicious. So maybe it didn't get to resolve Racism as a thing, but it made the player question their own myths. In its conclusion it offers up its most powerful assertion: that being sad about doing evil is no excuse, and more importantly no solution for evil.


    Secondly, is the violence gratutitous? I say no. It is a necessary result in depicting the complicity in evil that makes murder of the innocent possible. Unlike The Last of Us, Infinite did not sway the darlings of the industry to take up arms against all comers. The Last of Us was “brave,” Infinite was exploitative. I want to be soaked in excess. I adore gore. I think the aesthetic value of violence is no better expressed than it is with Bioshock Infinite. Put that spinny thing in brains and make a picture! How about that combat? Is it lacking? I say not. At its best – and its best is frequently seen through the playing time – it is visceral, poetic and full of chaos.


    Back to Ian Wagner. He taught me that to love something is to stand up for it. Even when he was wrong – and he was wrong not infrequently – he gave eloquent defenses to terrible things. He made you change your mind about those few certain things in your head. He made you proud to think free and unfettered by prejudice. He never, ever made someone feel less because they loved something he didn't. Instead he made them feel like the Last Angry Man. Come at me and do it right. So let me close by saying that my banging on about Infinite or Bob or Ridley is not out of some insecurity but is instead my trying to live up to the high water mark of creativity that these works have instilled in me. I owe them as much as I do to my parents, friends and family. To fail to argue in their corner would make me guilty of a great moral and artistic crime. So I fight as much as I can. Not only for the creators of these things but for those shy people too afraid of the Status Quo and sometimes literally the ACTUAL BAND STATUS QUO. If I ever find a woman who'll have me, I'll fight just as hard for her.


    Let me leave you with this: NEVER be ashamed of what you love. Love what you love and everything else can get fucked. If you meet a man or a woman or a transgender individual who tries to make you feel shit for loving something? Ditch them. They're not worth a damn. Love The Eagles. Love Neil Diamond. Love John Denver. Love fucking Morrissey with all his preening gumption. Do it honestly and without shame. That's it.

    Please tell stories about things you love that make you sad that more people don't share your love!
    "Given how long it's taken for me to reconcile my nature, I can't figure I'd forgo it on your account."
  • <3

    Will engage with this thread later on but I wanted to express how much I like it right now.
  • <3

    Will engage with this thread later on but I wanted to express how much I like it right now.

    I'm still great and you still love it.
  • I think I just tend to miss those sort of themes and narrative ideas in videogames because I don't play them enough. When I play something like Bioshock Infinite, the stuff at the end just doesn't really mean much because I've forgotten what happened at the start by then. I also probably just don't pay enough attention anyway. My overiding memory is of a game and a story that were getting in each other's way.

    In terms of recent things, The Witness is probably one of those things that I really love and could bang on about for a decent while. Everything in it just seems so immaculately placed and thought out. Again, I didn't get much 'meaning' from it (although the first video I found gave it a neat perspective), but as a piece of game design it's near faultless.
  • Dark Soldier
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    I don't think I've been fully taken in by a story in a videogame since Ico. Even with the most recent Deus Ex, which I adored and played through on a daily basis until completion, I had no real idea what was going on.

    I dunno, but feels like I'm becoming a Yoss in my older age. Mechanics > narrative. Although I do enjoy spotting things in say the Souls games, seeing areas ive been to previously or spotting something on the horizon and wondering if I can get there.
  • Skerret
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    Hullo Bugs.
    Skerret's posting is ok to trip balls to and read just to experience the ambience but don't expect any content.
    "I'm jealous of sucking major dick!"~ Kernowgaz
  • Still using your beautiful Audio Technica headphones! Talk about some stuff you love ok
    "Given how long it's taken for me to reconcile my nature, I can't figure I'd forgo it on your account."
  • Alcohol, pistachio nuts, being void of ambition.
  • Kow
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    Sofas, I like sofas.
  • Skerret
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    XOMuggins wrote:
    Still using your beautiful Audio Technica headphones! Talk about some stuff you love ok
    Good good, glad to read it.

    I love... milk.
    Skerret's posting is ok to trip balls to and read just to experience the ambience but don't expect any content.
    "I'm jealous of sucking major dick!"~ Kernowgaz
  • Raiziel
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    I don't really care if anyone else loves the things I love. If they do then great. I won't waste a second on those who don't because life really is too short. Do I want more people to love the things I love? Sure, why not. But I'm not about to punch someone in the face for having a pop at Skyrim.

    BioShock Infinite was great, by the way.
    Get schwifty.
  • Skerret
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    Skyrim was for simpos
    Skerret's posting is ok to trip balls to and read just to experience the ambience but don't expect any content.
    "I'm jealous of sucking major dick!"~ Kernowgaz
  • Raiziel
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    Why I oughta...
    Get schwifty.
  • Skerret
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    Actually I also love this amp I just bought, balanced out, Brooks would like it.

    I love amp.
    Skerret's posting is ok to trip balls to and read just to experience the ambience but don't expect any content.
    "I'm jealous of sucking major dick!"~ Kernowgaz
  • I love goooooooooolld
    I am a FREE. I am not MAN. A NUMBER.
  • I love Terranigma on SNES but I don't know anyone else who has actually played the game. I think Dubs has, but can't be sure. 

    There's a lot of "mechanics > narrative" kinda people around these parts, but I adore games that make me feel something. Maybe I'm too easily feeled (?) but I love it. That's not to say feeling games are my favourites per se, but if a game makes me emotional in some way, it immediately goes in my good books.
    I am a FREE. I am not MAN. A NUMBER.
  • I've played that. Some good bgm up ins, and it least it wasn't turn-based.
  • Great OP. It's become something of a running joke for some here that my tastes don't always align with the rest of the world. I'm used to loving things that others don't, and being indifferent or turned off by things that are widely popular. But... but...

    XOMuggins wrote:
    He once punched a guy for dissing The Beach Boys. Overreaction? No. He dealt out swift and vital punishment for a lack of intellectual faculties.

    Eh, no, I'm sorry, but your man sounds like a dick. That is an overreaction. If the way you deal with a lack of intellectual faculties is to resort to physical violence, you've not only lost the argument, you've lost any claim to intellectual superiority.
  • Kow
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    I'm not sure about the Beach Boys in general but dislike of Pet Sounds should be met with swift drowning.
  • Well I've not finished uncharted 3 yet,but so far it shits all over uncharted 2.
    http://horganphoto.com My STILL under construction website
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  • Bollockoff
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    It's good we finally have a thread to contain all the wrong opinions.
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    Skerret wrote:
    Skyrim was for simpos

    What's this doing here.
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    hylian_elf wrote:
    There's a lot of "mechanics > narrative" kinda people around these parts, but I adore games that make me feel something. Maybe I'm too easily feeled (?) but I love it. That's not to say feeling games are my favourites per se, but if a game makes me emotional in some way, it immediately goes in my good books.

    Mechanics are the unique tool that games have to explain their narrative tho. Ideally there should be no separation and is the reason I struggled to get into Sunless Sea because the atmosphere is top notch but the writing is insipidly average and half the game is fucking reading.
  • I liked the writing fuck you
  • Kow
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    Yar, the writing is great. So good that the writer has been nabbed by the Stellaris team to write stories for that.
  • Bollockoff
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    Think of writing from a game you hate and edit my post virtually.
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    TheDJR wrote:
    I liked the writing fuck you

    Get him to write your epitaph then when I punch through your skull.
  • hylian_elf wrote:
    I love Terranigma on SNES but I don't know anyone else who has actually played the game. I think Dubs has, but can't be sure.

    I have. It was a SNES game I enjoyed slightly more than most, which ain't saying much but yeah - I can get someone digging it.

  • Andy wrote:
    XOMuggins wrote:
    He once punched a guy for dissing The Beach Boys. Overreaction? No. He dealt out swift and vital punishment for a lack of intellectual faculties.
    Eh, no, I'm sorry, but your man sounds like a dick. That is an overreaction. If the way you deal with a lack of intellectual faculties is to resort to physical violence, you've not only lost the argument, you've lost any claim to intellectual superiority.

    I was like you once. Blond hair. Scraggly little beard. Childlike ears. Full of beans and spunk. I let my principles get in the way sometimes. I punched a bloke in the face once for saying "Hawk the Slayer" was rubbish.

    Good for you.

    Yeah, thanks. But that's not the point, Tim. The point is I was defending the fantasy genre with terminal intensity, when what I should have said is "Dad, you're right, but let's give Krull a try and we'll discuss it later."
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