Westworld - Full Of Spoilers
‹ Previous123456712
  • Don't expect an amazing first post. This is the place for speculation and discussion, stay out if you don't want to know what's happening. The only reason to black out discussion here should be if you see something elsewhere about stuff that hasn't happened yet in the show. Give people the choice if they want to know or not.
  • Paul the sparky
    Show networks
    Xbox
    Paul the sparky
    PSN
    Neon_Sparks
    Steam
    Paul_the_sparky

    Send message
    Speculative tosh.
  • There are three timelines

    One is present with Ed Harris et al.

    One is the past, with young Ed (aka the McPoyle brother) leading to the incident mentioned "30 years ago".

    Finally the voices whispering to Dolores and the "interview" with Dolores are her talking to Arnold.

    That's right Arnold is Bernard.

    So Bernard is Anthony Hopkins' attempt to recreate his partner.

    Evidence is Abernathy threatened them both. Meet my maker, I will visit my vengeance on you both, that king Lear line.

    I need to check one thing, when Bernard has a phone call with his wife, they mention his kid. That was in the present and Dolores mentioned the kid also. Maybe that blows the third time line out, but then we are told by Hopkins that Arnold also suffered a personal tragedy. So either I'm right and Bernard is a copy of Arnold, or that's crackpot and when we see Bernard speak to Dolores alone (opening the series with it) then one of two things must be true:

    Bernard is getting obsessed with Dolores like Arnold was. Or:

    We and Dolores see Bernard but it is in fact a conversation with Arnold.

    Anyway, the show only makes sense with two timelines, otherwise it's a clusterfuck
  • Three posts too, one for each timeline!
    iosGameCentre:T3hDaddy;
    XBL: MistaTeaTime
  • Anyway, I'm taking the appearance of Lawrence straight after the MiB cuts his throat to be confirmation of at least two time lines in the show. Logan and William are I'm guessing from the company that invests in the park, although that sort of vagueness is a bit of a warning flag here. Maybe they aren't at all! Delores appearing to see herself in the crowd muddies the water, it at least suggests that there could be multiple copies of the same robot or they could be quickly reusing him, but both options seem very immersion breaking for guests. 

    Bernard being Arnold seems probable, was something hinted at early where he talks about his son and something similar is said about the robots. I've only as vague recollection. My biggest doubt about people being robots is that it's been done a lot before.
  • Probably only barely relevant but Harris is obviously a good guy outside of his holiday.  Last week someone said something about his foundation saving his sister.
    iosGameCentre:T3hDaddy;
    XBL: MistaTeaTime
  • I was thinking about this show earlier when people started crying spoilers in the tv thread.
    Thing is, we're now half way through the season, and what could you actually post that is a legitimate spoiler?
    The plot itself runs a poor second to all the mystery box bobbins, none of which has been resolved in any way, shape or form.
    Basically people are fannying about in Westworld and some robots appear to be developing higher consciousness...and that's it. Five hours so far.

    Now I'm enjoying it as an hour of slick telly every week and I like a good mystery as much as the next guy, but this is starting to take the piss imo. Every week reveals nothing, but instead just piles mystery on top of mystery to keep you tuning in next week.

    It's an incredibly lazy way of writing a show that's purely designed for the internet generation to sank themselves silly theorising about online.

    There's probably a far more elegant, involving and interesting way of telling the story they're trying to tell, but that would involve actually crafting an engaging narrative that people could empathise with rather than just all this fucking Scooby Doo nonsense.
    Come with g if you want to live...
  • I think the scene where we're lead to believe the MiB rapes Delores in the first episode was also misdirection. I suspect he did something completely different to her.

    As for Delores seeing herself everywhere. I don't think it's multiple versions of robots. I think she's getting flashbacks of herself at the same location in different loops of her life.
    Come with g if you want to live...
  • Paul the sparky
    Show networks
    Xbox
    Paul the sparky
    PSN
    Neon_Sparks
    Steam
    Paul_the_sparky

    Send message
    I think it's a bit early doors to be expecting stuff to be resolved, we're only at the half way stage.

    Agree with your other two points though g, I think he scalped her for the maze malarkey (wot is that all about?) and she's getting robo-déjà vu.
  • I think the time line fuckery could be good fun if you hadn't had an inkling, then saw the latest episode. As above though, they suggest multiple robots are possible so you'd maybe still not be any the wiser. 

    I'm not sure that these sort of shows can stand up to the internet speculation any more. I don't know that they ever could. I stopped Lost and Heroes at the last episode of the first series and The X-Files mystery seemed like an experiment in writing a continuing story on TV that the writers were never that concerned about having to finish.

    Coming from Nolan, I think this could possibly all fit together perfectly. An incredibly expensive attempt to do this sort of thing properly from the start, using our memory of the film and Crichton's other work as misdirection from the start.
  • I actually struggle each week when I start a new episode of this to remember what the fuck happened the week before. That's a sign of bad narrative to me.
    Come with g if you want to live...
  • I don't think there are two copies of Delores either, the timing of her imagining it though seemed deliberate, to at least plant a possibility of there being two of Lawrence.
  • Yeah, there's a fantastic amount of misdirection going on, and they've done some incredibly clever stuff with the editing that means certain scenes could actually be playing out over different timelines.
    Come with g if you want to live...
  • By that I mean different individual shots in some scenes are occurring in different times rather than a linear scene in one timeline.
    Come with g if you want to live...
  • I mentioned it last week, the security guy in the control room (in the present) noticing Delores has gone off her loop and an investigation is launched, something about her possibly accompanying guests, but they weren't sure who. Cut to her with William and Logan (in the past). Of course she could go off with guests all the time, the only reason for the scene seemed to be to misdirect.
  • g.man wrote:
    I actually struggle each week when I start a new episode of this to remember what the fuck happened the week before. That's a sign of bad narrative to me.

    Same, it wouldn't harm to stick a quick recap at the front, surprised they don't actually. 

    I'm hoping this all pulls together eventually, but I get the feeling that we will be none the wiser about many things by the end of the season.
  • I_R wrote:
    I mentioned it last week, the security guy in the control room (in the present) noticing Delores has gone off her loop and an investigation is launched, something about her possibly accompanying guests, but they weren't sure who. Cut to her with William and Logan (in the past). Of course she could go off with guests all the time, the only reason for the scene seemed to be to misdirect.
    Yeah, there's a hell of a lot of that sort of stuff.
    Final shot in Ep5 of Delores talking to herself/Arnold in the train, the carriage is empty where the other characters should be, which again implies the same shit happening over and over in different timelines.
    Come with g if you want to live...
  • ...Also, I wouldn't be surprised if Bernard is actually Arnold and exists in different timelines as well. The conversations with Delores being the human Arnold in the distant past, and the Bernard/Arnold in the present being an android recreation.
    Come with g if you want to live...
  • g.man wrote:
    I was thinking about this show earlier when people started crying spoilers in the tv thread.
    Thing is, we're now half way through the season, and what could you actually post that is a legitimate spoiler?
    The plot itself runs a poor second to all the mystery box bobbins, none of which has been resolved in any way, shape or form.
    Basically people are fannying about in Westworld and some robots appear to be developing higher consciousness...and that's it. Five hours so far.

    Now I'm enjoying it as an hour of slick telly every week and I like a good mystery as much as the next guy, but this is starting to take the piss imo. Every week reveals nothing, but instead just piles mystery on top of mystery to keep you tuning in next week.

    It's an incredibly lazy way of writing a show that's purely designed for the internet generation to sank themselves silly theorising about online.

    There's probably a far more elegant, involving and interesting way of telling the story they're trying to tell, but that would involve actually crafting an engaging narrative that people could empathise with rather than just all this fucking Scooby Doo nonsense.

    The timelines point is a spoiler. That's why I "cried" spoiler, I'm glad no one told me about it before I started watching.
  • Yeah, I get what your saying, but it's pretty heavily telegraphed right from the first episode.
    Come with g if you want to live...
  • cockbeard
    Show networks
    Facebook
    ben.usaf
    Twitter
    @cockbeard
    PSN
    c_ckbeard
    Steam
    cockbeard

    Send message
    I don't think they're imaginative or destructive enough to bring new timelines into it, that's a series 3 thing surely, could easily be mistaken

    Enjoyed the Harris/Hopkins interaction though, Hopkins flexing his muscle by simply pressing start on the player 1 pad
    "I spent years thinking Yorke was legit Downs-ish disabled and could only achieve lucidity through song" - Mr B
  • Way back in episode 1, when this guy is malfunctioning he's brought in to the lab and has a conversation with Tony Hopkins and Bernard. Hopkins asks him what his goal is. He replies he wants to meet his maker, at which point Hopkins looks at Bernard and says "well, you're in luck!" 
    At that point this exchange happens...
    both.gif

    which gives credence to the whole Bernard being Arnold, and human in one timeline and robot in another theory...maybe.
    Come with g if you want to live...
  • Bernard being Arnold has been niggling away at me since we first heard about Arnold’s existence. It feels likely.

    I’m not sold on the multiple timelines idea, it just doesn’t feel very elegantly done. Nolan has form in that area, of course, and the notion of loops and repetition is central to the show … but I’m not convinced yet.
  • This thread makes my head hurt. Maybe it's just a show about robots who would like to think they're more than just robots, with some humans that get in the way a bit. Can we leave it at that huh?
  • You could well be right.
    Come with g if you want to live...
  • This is kind of what’s bugging me about the show. Maybe it’s not as clever as everyone’s trying to think it is. Maybe it’s just a straightforward sci-fi about AI and consciousness.
  • So towards the end of last show when the civil war type dudes where discovering they'd been had over it certainly seemed implied that the guys where in peril. Now that seems to be something of an over sight. Where they not hosts? And if they where other guests surely they can't hurt each other? Also you'd of thought Hosts couldn't physically assault guests? Or where they supposed to be off the reservation?
    Feets, Don't fail me now!
  • Paul the sparky
    Show networks
    Xbox
    Paul the sparky
    PSN
    Neon_Sparks
    Steam
    Paul_the_sparky

    Send message
    I thought that guy was playing along, he took a few digs but didn't lose any blood, and he had a wry smirk when the other bloke didn't help him out. I thinks it's all part of the plan to give the white hat guy agency, I don't think the hosts can't harm guests.
  • Oh, I thought he looked genuinely scared.

    And while I would imagine the Rachel Wood character is fully invested your man looked rather worried too. Given that he always looks slightly worried.
    Feets, Don't fail me now!
  • Remember one of them got shot in an early episode and it hurt, although it wasn't a proper bullet. There was also the mention that only certain hosts could use certain tools for safety reasons. That does slightly fall apart because hosts shooting at guests have a heavy piece of steel machinery at hand and could do serious damage by using it as a club.
‹ Previous123456712

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!