Homer's Mario Odyssey
  • Thanks to that comment I skipped that 15 minutes and it's still a dull video. Even if I agree with parts of it, it's doing nothing for me. "6 of the levels are really small lads, how can this be in a game about exploration?" Can it, nerd.
  • Dark Soldier
    Show networks
    Xbox
    DorkSirjur
    PSN
    DorkSirjur
    Steam
    darkjunglist84

    Send message
    The only good Mario game (not counting the offshoots like glof, tennis, paper and others) was SMW so its done well to have me rank it so high. 64/Sunshine (waggle bollocks cunt) and others can get binned.
    Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious, I romance a mam like oedipus
  • Andy
    Show networks
    Twitter
    @DrewMerson
    Xbox
    Drew Merson
    PSN
    adkm1979
    Steam
    DrewMerson

    Send message
    He puts out good content. A lot of effort went into that.

    I’ll take your word for the latter. The former is not evidenced by what I saw.
  • Escape
    Show networks
    Twitter
    Futurscapes
    PSN
    Futurscape
    Steam
    Futurscape

    Send message
    From what I've watched, his criticisms match my suspicions: that Mario controls beautifully but has little to exploit with it. I expected that the first time we saw Sand Kingdom with its few buildings.

    For its many faults, Tenchu felt fresh after 64, because it iterated on some of the latter's 3D-platforming elements. Deadly Shadows in third-person, too, despite not being the best Thief, had some cool ideas of its own. I think Mario's worlds are still lagging behind his moveset.
  • Dark Soldier
    Show networks
    Xbox
    DorkSirjur
    PSN
    DorkSirjur
    Steam
    darkjunglist84

    Send message
    There's an absolute fucking ton to exploit with it, see an Any% speedrun. Even minor stuff you may do in the game, like a skip for the sake of it. Nintendo have generally designed the game around such things.
    Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious, I romance a mam like oedipus
  • Escape
    Show networks
    Twitter
    Futurscapes
    PSN
    Futurscape
    Steam
    Futurscape

    Send message
    There's a real dull semantics battle over the definition of exploits and glitches and how they fuse based on implementation. Using a chopper when the designers had based a mission around cars in Vice City; that's my flavour. Doing it that way actually took longer.
  • Dark Soldier
    Show networks
    Xbox
    DorkSirjur
    PSN
    DorkSirjur
    Steam
    darkjunglist84

    Send message
    Thing is in Odyssey the devs made it that way intentionally. this is a game where you can go on top of a level to skip it entirely using a back somersault > kick off wall, throw hat > dive, and the devs put coins up there knowing players would do it. Or on top of a maze ceiling, only to find a moon.  Its wonderfully thought out, like Zelda, and a lot of their input.

    I suck Ninty dick now. Not on the regular, but there's odd moments of weakness.
    Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious, I romance a mam like oedipus
  • Escape
    Show networks
    Twitter
    Futurscapes
    PSN
    Futurscape
    Steam
    Futurscape

    Send message
    There is still flounce in you, I can feel it.

    You know how you can grind up your RPG men to blast through mid-tier bosses and that sort of thing. Everything in Odyssey's tied to speedrunning, no? It's not like you're manipulating weaknesses in AI or owt, 'cause they're yer little Goombas and that again. Three hits to down bosses.

    Like your man in the video says, Mario has a ton of agency in a game that falls short of using it to full effect. Unless you speedrun, which is a valid thing, then yes. I just like digging into things at a deeper — and for most people more boring — level. Fightman frames are an acquired, semi-desperate taste.

    If I could manipulate a Goomba into following me into a Minecraft-style pit that I'd dug up. Shit idea, but to give an idea of what I mean about interacting with AI at an appreciable code level, instead of just watching it run its routines. Breath of the Wild's world felt almost empty for the same reason, luckily it was a pretty amazing world by itself. Hookshot, boo.
  • You haven't even played the game. Forgive me but, wtf do you want from a videogame FFS.

    Escape is indecipherable. Is he Mod?
  • Thing is, I agree with the sentiment behind this boring as fuck, badly constructed and overwritten JPH video, even if Lambhoot did one ages ago that was far, far better f only because it never relies on bullshit like those stupid "this is the first level" and "pause the videos guess" gotchas that feel so ill-judged, as pandering and desperately rote as the very things he's criticising.

    But, importantly, I still greatly enjoyed my time with Odyssey. I never felt obliged to collect every Moon, I relished having a smorgasbord of objectives to dip into, I loved the way it felt like a dialogue between player and designer, and I found the texture of the experience wonderful. It is a game for kids, but I am not going to pull a snobbish angle on that like JPH and say a critic's feelings need caveating because of thats. For a man who writes stories like "Dragon Wizard" or whatever he should be more careful about disregarding kid's media especially when it's proven more elegant and thoughtful than reams of 'mature' stuff over the years.

    Bar an overbearing sense that the majority of it was a little on the easy side, none of the valid criticism really sticks in my mind, because the action of playing it was delightful, it felt good, it was fun and joyful and stopping to analyse games on such a reductive level can often be pointless: every game is reducible to the same handful of tasks with altered set dressing, Odyssey barely bothered with the artifice because it had faith in fun. I can't sit through 10 hours of most open world games these days, but Odyssey had me on board. Sometimes things are more than the sum of their parts if you just buy into the ride and experience the whole as opposed to deconstructing it to reach the same answers as you do with almost every single player game given their construction.

    It's slick design, kinect immersion, a flippant sense of joy, a banquet of platitudes, and you know what? That's entirely fine.

    Ultimately by watching an analysis and not playing it, in my mind you're removing yourself from discussion to an extent - you've got all the mechanics there, but not the expression or the feeling. It's an intangible thing, which is a weak defence, but Mario has it.
  • Tempy knows.

    You should make a video ;)
  • I'm seeing this as reading way, way too much into a videogame. It's a piece of entertainment. I'm not sure it really deserves this sort of level of dismantling but hey.
  • FranticPea
    Show networks
    Xbox
    FranticPea
    PSN
    FranticPea
    Steam
    FranticPea

    Send message
    Yeah, it's Mario. It's great. End of.
    Hairlo?
  • They're fair and valid criticisms handled badly because they misunderstand the premise and aim of the game. People vocalising these feelings is what gets you the games you enjoy, but pre-youtube it was largely confined to studio and classroom discussion. You can't design Souls without knowing what you don't want to be. It totally deserves analysis as a response to the insane amount of time and effort put into its creation.

    You can also just enjoy. Invalidating either approach is disingenuous.
  • FranticPea
    Show networks
    Xbox
    FranticPea
    PSN
    FranticPea
    Steam
    FranticPea

    Send message
    Yeah I'm only having a larf Tempo.

    Glad I've finally found a Mario I like though. It's only taken 30 odd years.
    Hairlo?
  • I like it but it's no Galaxy. For one It's lacking a sense of challenge. Secondly, it's too freeform - there's millions of moons all over the place and it lacks the achievement felt by getting a star even in Mario64.

    Considering how child-friendly it is I do love it's change in atmosphere. It's not afraid to go a little moody - wide expanses of not very much and no music playing. It's quite startling to just hear the sound of Mario's footsteps echoing around a stage.
  • FranticPea
    Show networks
    Xbox
    FranticPea
    PSN
    FranticPea
    Steam
    FranticPea

    Send message
    The twangy bird beaks made it for me. Small things.
    Hairlo?
  • EvilRedEye
    Show networks
    Twitter
    adrianongaming
    Xbox
    EvilRedEye8
    PSN
    EvilRedEye8
    Steam
    EvilRedEye8

    Send message
    The minor Moons never bothered me as I appreciated they were intended as a replacement for the now-depreciated 1UP mushrooms.
    "ERE's like Mr. Muscle, he loves the things he hates"
  • But they aren't. They're somewhere in between and you didn't have to sit through an animation when you got a mushroom.
  • EvilRedEye
    Show networks
    Twitter
    adrianongaming
    Xbox
    EvilRedEye8
    PSN
    EvilRedEye8
    Steam
    EvilRedEye8

    Send message
    I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make tbh.
    "ERE's like Mr. Muscle, he loves the things he hates"
  • But you could do similar for Zelda, easily. I think Bunnyhop calculated the amount of time he unable to skip the intro and the reward scenes from the shrines in Breath of the Wild (including loading) and it's a minute per shrine (on the WiiU). That's ignoring the Korok Seed jingle. It also misses the point that the scene lingers just long enough in Mario for you to hit screen grab, in case you want to share it with your friends.

    There's a push and pull between No Fanfare and Some Fanfare, and you have to decide somewhere. It was probably too long in Odyssey, but I honestly don't feel it ever bothered me. Heck, I even like the little jingle.
  • Yeah it annoyed in Zelda too, but it felt more of a reward for competing a thing rather than happening on it by turning a corner. Sharing 880 similar screen grabs with your friends might get annoying.
  • That's a response that takes the suggestion to absurdism, it's there for all of them so you can chose which ones you want to capture, so they're level.  I think that's the main issue though, the harder ones to find are given the same level of fanfare as the easiest ones. Fucking Participation Medals right? Again, it doesn't bother me really. I spent just over an hour getting Moon Fanfares in my total play time, but to be honest most of that Fanfare time overlapped with the time I talked to Ev about what I'd just done, or me putting the pad down for a rest. It rarely felt like wasted time. Hugely less so than Zelda's loading issues.
  • Tempy wrote:
    That's a response that takes the suggestion to absurdism, it's there for all of them so you can chose which ones you want to capture, so they're level.

    The Kurok had more charm for starters, and it could be quite atmospheric depending on the location. The point is you didn't really need the seeds past a certain level and could progress without them.
  • I'd say the same for a the moons too, you don't really need all that many for the majority of your progress
  • The Moon's are the only way of progressing. That there's too many of them is kind of my point. There's a nicer balance in 64 imo and a better sense of reward. Don't get me wrong, I do like it in a sort of disposable way. It feels strangely Western, and not just that city.
  • It basically feels like it's been made by Rare on licence.
  • Tempy wrote:
    That's a response that takes the suggestion to absurdism, it's there for all of them so you can chose which ones you want to capture, so they're level.

    The Kurok had more charm for starters, and it could be quite atmospheric depending on the location. The point is you didn't really need the seeds past a certain level and could progress without them.

    You're kidding right? Korok seeds were intolerable after you've found ten or so. Far more irritating than picking a moon up.
  • Andy
    Show networks
    Twitter
    @DrewMerson
    Xbox
    Drew Merson
    PSN
    adkm1979
    Steam
    DrewMerson

    Send message
    It’s almost like different people like different things. Madness.

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!