Both games are for suckers.

Edit: Oh, I don't mean that. I just don't like them.

Tried so many stages and hate most of them so far. Too much shit going on and too hard to see what I’m doing or at least trying to do. Don’t know where my character is half the time.

Paul the sparky wrote:

Roujin wrote:

Paul the sparky wrote:

We get it reg, you didn't like RDR2, let it go.

Although now you've mentioned it and the effort put in, I am starting to wonder about how many unpaid all night shifts the staff working on Smash had to put in, and wonder where this reg went:

regmcfly wrote:

That the rockstar guys can make a game and that it's somehow statue to goat status. I'd rather their staff got a break and it's a great game rather than an all timer. The fuck I had to spell this out tells me a lot.

Sakurai wasn't out boasting to the world his team were pulling 100 hour weeks though. There's a big difference between the things that everyone knows happen in the industry that are shit and people trying to spin the shit things as something that should be proud of.

Also Smash Ultimate is a joyous love letter of a game to its fans while RDR2 is a technical tour de force which may or may not be the cool, approachable face of its money siphoning online component.

So as long as crunch is not mentioned and we can pretend it's not happening, we can celebrate the results?

But if it is mentioned then that's poor form and boycott worthy?

Seems like some hypocritical fanboy bullshit to me, although ignorance can be bliss. I dunno, I'd rather it was a transparent thing so it has a chance to be changed for the better.

The difference here is you are hypothesising it happened versus a studio head literally saying it happened.

And fwiw I get it, rdr2 is your goat. You'll protect it. I'll do the same for mass effect 2.

regmcfly wrote:

The difference here is you are hypothesising it happened versus a studio head literally saying it happened.

And fwiw I get it, rdr2 is your goat. You'll protect it. I'll do the same for mass effect 2.

Yeah, they've not came out and said it, but this is Japan, at Nintendo, working under Sakurai.

Back during Super Smash Bros. Melee's production, Mr. Sakurai worked for 13 months straight without a day off. He would also work for 40 hours straight and take only four hours off for sleep, which ultimately led to his collapse and hospital admittance.

When Super Smash Bros. 4 was being developed, Sakurai suffered from calcific tendonitis in his right arm due to his hectic work schedule. This injury impacted the game's development at the time, and Sakurai noted that he would often use his days off to continue working on the project.

So come on. It's not the turning a blind eye you're currently doing that's odd to me (Nate is getting Smash for Christmas, so I'm right there with you), more the fierce condemnation of Rockstar at the time and subsequent double standards/turn around here. And that's not just because RDR2 is my GoaT either, I don't expect or want everyone to see that game the way I do, I'd be saying the same things if you went as hard about any other game only to give Nintendo the free pass. More than a free pass even, you're celebrating the effort put in as if it's a good thing and not the same shitty thing that Rockstar were doing.

You fucking monster.

Paul the sparky wrote:

You fucking monster.

Spoiler:

I agree with you, but still want some unionisation within the industry to cut this shit out.

This. I hundo agree with you.
If you look at it, I wasn't criticising rdr2 Vs smash for the hours put in, you did that. I was saying one was more fun than the other. But if you're asking if I want staff to be supported of fucking course. My own union is probably going on strike in January.

Really enjoying this, after not spending much time with the Wii U version. Tip if you want to unlock fighters as much as possible: closing and restarting the game resets the encounter rate, so just play a quick game of smash and you’ll get a challenger.

mistercrayon wrote:

i know reg poked the needle of this topic but there’s surely a better thread for this than this one? At best there’s some speculation about the labour conditions of the smash team but other than that?!

Well I'm busy enjoying it and singing the main theme to myself while I do the housework.

Are you being purposely obtuse?

Clearly he says rockstars guys were glorifying crunch and no such glorification is happening here from the smash team?

If you’re gonna keep futzing up the thread with this bollocks at least read the nuance in what he is saying.

How do you know this is the case? There’s a case to be made that much of the work was done on this from the wii u game which is in and of itself a 4 year old game. So why couldn’t there be a reasonable amount of work on polishing and heart? Actively they’ve talked about removing some of the most labour intensive parts (trophies) and replaced them with (pre existing) drawings and setting tweaks.

Moar talk about the game. Chinese suicides haven't stopped anyone buying iPhones. Crunch exists, it will always exist, while idiots like us get hype, and want to pre-order there will be deadlines, deadlines mean crunch. We all want to add more all the time, human nature

Roujin wrote:

Reg hasn't glorified the crunch though has he? He's commended the effort that has gone into the game, which is reflected in the quality and quantity of content which has been squeezed into what appears to be Smash's magnum opus. Also Reg is not an executive at Nintendo doing the publicity circuit (at least not yet, iirc he doesn't have enough amiibos to get a seat on the board) trying to get people to buy their game.

Just as I think anyone would commend the effort made by the Rockstar team which shows though in RDR2. Shrinking horse testicles and all. 

There is a clear difference though when the management at Rockstar are trying to big up the amount of hours their team are doing during crunch and making out like we should all applaud that as a good sign for the quality of the forthcoming title, which if you wouldn't mind pre-ordering after reading this interview would be just swell, kthx.

See, I don't know how you can commend the efforts of Nintendo's staff without taking the long working hours into account as they are surely part of their efforts?

But maybe I'm wrong on the whole thing, and the original bee in reg's bonnet wasn't about the long hours worked by Rockstar's staff at all, it was only the fact that Rockstar came out and bragged about it. That way we can applaud the results of crunch and crazy working hours so long as the devs keep tight lipped about it. It's not about unpaid overtime and toxic working conditions, it's about ethics in videogame PR.

Or, as Crayon would have it, the bloke famous for working insane hours, in a company which has a history of excessive working hours, in a country which has a working culture problem, most probably didn't have anyone working long hours anyway, as all they did was cobble together bits of code from an old WiiU game. So it's all moot and I'm wrong on both counts, reg can't have double standards because it's all roll in late, extended dinner breaks and early finishes over at Nintendo. Fair enough I suppose, I can leave it there.

I think it's fair to argue both sides of it but it's kinda hard to argue it when one side is a complete unknown in terms of potential overtime.

Which is probably a good way to draw a line under it.

So I resisted impulse buying this on Friday (Argos had it for a reasonable price). How’s the single player? My internet’s so bad that any online stuff would be pointless until they get round to doing fibre here.

LivDiv wrote:

I'm hooked on the Spirit mode but I'm not sure it will be for everyone.
Its a bit of a head fuck at first and certainly the Kotaku reviewer didn't seem to understand it.

Classic mode is like the old games but more tailored to each character, a real upgrade there.

Have you done Ryu's yet? It's amazing. You start out fighting and then from that normal one it goes off on a mad one. You fight then and so on. My favourite was