Le grand chien 3.0 - The Bear and Badger

regmcfly

This vote is the first where I don't really care either way.

regmcfly

And also big apologies to Davy. This time I'll get it right.

bad_hair_day

Voting PS4 because it pushed VR forward, has cracking exclusives and stopped Bob getting an Xbox One.

davyK

regmcfly wrote:

And also big apologies to Davy. This time I'll get it right.

mistercrayon

Kara_Jane_Addams wrote:

davyK wrote:

The NES takes credit for kick starting the video game market in the US and providing a splendidly popular platform for Nintendo and a host of 3rd party devs in Japan.

Re-kickstarting after the crash of 1983

And most of those 3rd party devs were tied into restrictive licensing deals that nearly stifled the industry.

Thank fuck Sega came along.

You say that but obviously they didn’t stifle the industry in reality and I would argue were a one solution to counteract the problems that caused the crash (software flooding)

dynamiteReady

I'm voting for the NES. I had one, but even if I didn't, it will stick in my memory far longer than the PS4 will. What came before the PS4 and after the PS2 again, btw?

Fucking boring ass console.

That gen almost completely put me off games.

The PS4 is a marked improvement over the PS?, but after Sony nailed the strategy with the original PS, and consolidated their gains with the knocky looking, and also slightly pretentious PS2, the PS brand has been little more than a box ticking enterprise.

The NES had loads of great moments. Games that are still played avidly today.
And where hindsight brings ropey old mechanics into sharp focus, that motherfather' had the Zapper and DUCK HUNT, yo'.

And that wasn't even the system's greatest highlight.

Family. Entertainment.
And Nintendo have been slinging that line ever since.

When was the last time your sister/wife/kids/mum/dad/aunts practically begged you to play God of War X (or what have you)?

Never.

But even after close to 30 years, talking about video games, people invariably remember Space Invaders and - insert NES game of your choice -

Sure, let's watch PS4 win this round, but there's only really one true winner in this one.

retroking1981

mistercrayon wrote:

Kara_Jane_Addams wrote:

davyK wrote:

The NES takes credit for kick starting the video game market in the US and providing a splendidly popular platform for Nintendo and a host of 3rd party devs in Japan.

Re-kickstarting after the crash of 1983 And most of those 3rd party devs were tied into restrictive licensing deals that nearly stifled the industry. Thank fuck Sega came along.

You say that but obviously they didn’t stifle the industry in reality and I would argue were a one solution to counteract the problems that caused the crash (software flooding)

Everyone has following the licensing programme put in place by them to, in America at least.

AFAIK in Japan it was a bit more like the Atari model. Didn't 3rd parties make their own carts in Japan?

retroking1981

Well said @dynamiteReady

bad_hair_day

I'd follow him over the top after that speech.

Kara_Jane_Addams

mistercrayon wrote:

Kara_Jane_Addams wrote:

davyK wrote:

The NES takes credit for kick starting the video game market in the US and providing a splendidly popular platform for Nintendo and a host of 3rd party devs in Japan.

Re-kickstarting after the crash of 1983

And most of those 3rd party devs were tied into restrictive licensing deals that nearly stifled the industry.

Thank fuck Sega came along.

You say that but obviously they didn’t stifle the industry in reality and I would argue were a one solution to counteract the problems that caused the crash (software flooding)

It’s a complete myth that there were no shit games on the NES, there were hundreds.

It was about stifling competition and restricting the market place.

Hence they were sued for it.

More than once.

Much like them trying to ban game rentals by suing Blockbuster Video.

Which they lost.

hylian_elf

retroking1981 wrote:

Well said @dynamiteReady

I like dynamite, so I won't pick on his post.

retroking1981

Kara_Jane_Addams wrote:

The NES takes credit for kick starting the video game market in the US and providing a splendidly popular platform for Nintendo and a host of 3rd party devs in Japan.

Re-kickstarting after the crash of 1983 And most of those 3rd party devs were tied into restrictive licensing deals that nearly stifled the industry. Thank fuck Sega came along.

You say that but obviously they didn’t stifle the industry in reality and I would argue were a one solution to counteract the problems that caused the crash (software flooding)

It’s a complete myth that there were no shit games on the NES, there were hundreds. It was about stifling competition and restricting the market place. Hence they were sued for it. More than once.

There's hundreds of shit games on almost all consoles popular enough to have that many games.

In fact the more popular the more shit they tend to have. NES, PS, PS2 and Wii probably being the worst.

retroking1981

Double post, sorry

Kara_Jane_Addams

retroking1981 wrote:

There's hundreds of shit games on almost all consoles popular enough to have that many games.

In fact the more popular the more shit they tend to have. NES, PS, PS2 and Wii probably being the worst.

I know.

That’s the point, I hate the retconning of Nintendo’s history to make them out to be altruistic pioneers that just cared about quality.

It’s nowt but rosey tinged bum gravy.

Paul the sparky

Kara_Jane_Addams wrote:

It’s nowt but rosey tinged bum gravy.

I've been wondering how to sum up my thoughts about this thread. Cheers.

retroking1981

Kara_Jane_Addams wrote:

There's hundreds of shit games on almost all consoles popular enough to have that many games. In fact the more popular the more shit they tend to have. NES, PS, PS2 and Wii probably being the worst.

I know. That’s the point, I hate the retconning of Nintendo’s history to make them out to be altruistic pioneers that just cared about quality. It’s nowt but rosey tinged bum gravy.

But don't you think that element of control might have helped its success?

If they launched like Atari or the Famicom theoretically there would have been nothing stopping anyone jumping on the gravy train derailing it in its early days.

What I don't get is why people single Nintendo out when Sega etc all followed suit. Licensing and control became an industry standard, for good reason.

This also surely has nothing to do with it what we're discussing here. Its library of games and interface are all that really matter here, not the companies business practises.

Kara_Jane_Addams

retroking1981 wrote:

Kara_Jane_Addams wrote:

There's hundreds of shit games on almost all consoles popular enough to have that many games. In fact the more popular the more shit they tend to have. NES, PS, PS2 and Wii probably being the worst.

I know. That’s the point, I hate the retconning of Nintendo’s history to make them out to be altruistic pioneers that just cared about quality. It’s nowt but rosey tinged bum gravy.

But don't you think that element of control might have helped its success?

If they launched like Atari or the Famicom there would have been nothing stopping anyone jumping on the gravy train a derailing it in its early days.

What I don't get is why people single Nintendo out when Sega etc all following suit. Licensing and control became an industry standard.

This also surely has nothing to do with it what we're discussing here. Its library of games and interface are all that really matter here, not the companies business practises.

They weren’t singled out It was a specific point in response to a specific post.

Now I’ll single them out.

Fuck Nintendo.

(For the record, I’m feeling very childish today)

[Deleted User]

dynamiteReady wrote:

Family. Entertainment.
And Nintendo have been slinging that line ever since.

When was the last time your sister/wife/kids/mum/dad/aunts practically begged you to play God of War X (or what have you)?

Never.

But even after close to 30 years, talking about video games, people invariably remember Space Invaders and - insert NES game of your choice -

Good grief. The Nintendo games that family beg to play are limited to one or two titles per console, if that, and certainly don’t go back to the NES days. You’re talking about a very small aspect of a much larger field of entertainment. Same room family game time is tiny compared to online, and Nintendo get that wrong at almost every turn.

Talking about videogames, nobody outside of enthusiasts remember many NES titles. Even then, they are almost always spoken about as how great they were at the time, and how borderline unplayable they are now.

It’s a glorious work of fiction you’ve written, there. Nostalgic bum-gravy, as it were.

retroking1981

Kara_Jane_Addams wrote:

They weren’t singled out It was a specific point in response to a specific post. Now I’ll single them out. Fuck Nintendo. (For the record, I’m feeling very childish today)

Fair enough ;-)

Minnesänger

@dyno is out to lunch, imo.

When was the last time they family begged me to play God of War? They didn't.

But the missus loved Until Dawn as she could play along, and the PS4 has a great number of games of that ilk that can be played from your mobile phone. The PS4 absolutely has Family Entertainment.

Some of Switch's best party games - e.g. Overcooked - are available on the PS4.

The PS4 has true support for art-house games whether big - The Last Guardian - or small, Journey or the upcoming Concrete Genie.

The PS4 has Little Big Planet 3 and Dreams.

The PS4 has incredible triple-A - God of War, Horizon.

It has peak Japan - Yakuza, Nier, Persona 5, Dragon Quest XI.

The PS4 has VR. Good VR. Astrobot, Moss, and it pioneered full-length "proper" VR games in RE7.

It has the best MMO of this generation - Final Fantasy XIV.

It has shit-loads of great third-party games.

The PS4 has a truly diverse line-up. Possibly the most diverse line-up of games on a home console ever.

It has Share Play and Remote Play.

It has weaknesses - despite the pedigree of Sony's previous racing output, i'd argue it lacks a truly great, mass market racer.

It's far from box-ticking. It's comprehensive and inclusive. It has some of the best games of this generation and is one of the most well-rounded consoles. It's for people who follow AAA, it's for people who buy a few big games every year and, yes, it's for family members on the sofa (and they often don't even need a controller, if they have a smartphone).

I know the argument against that may be "none of those appeal to me" and that's fine. I'm not a fan of every game above, but I can still understand their quality and versatility. The PS4 has been an incredible machine.

Minnesänger

Pure nostalgia basically. If there's nothing for you on the PS4, the problem isn't the PS4.

retroking1981

Minnesänger wrote:

Pure nostalgia basically. If there's nothing for you on the PS4, the problem isn't the PS4.

I agree with you that PlayStation consoles have the most diverse libraries, but again that's not what this thread is about.

If you don't like the NES it's not the NES's fault, we could flip that on any system. At the end of the day we can't play or like everything.

We should stop bashing each others choices and focus on enjoying reading why people chose system X.

Minnesänger

retroking1981 wrote:

Minnesänger wrote:

Pure nostalgia basically. If there's nothing for you on the PS4, the problem isn't the PS4.

I agree with you that PlayStation consoles have the most diverse libraries, but again that's not what this thread is about.

If you don't like the NES it's not the NES's fault, we could flip that on any system. At the end of the day we can't play or like everything.

We should stop bashing each others choices and focus on enjoying reading why people chose system X.

Im not bashing his choice - if NES games resonated with him more strongly then that’s great.

I was disagreeing with the assertion that “PS4 isn’t family entertainment because mum doesn’t want to play God of War”.

And for me, the diversity of PS4’s lineup wasn’t a major concern - it was to do with it being “boring ass”.

He can like the NES. I just thought the reasoning was weak.

Minnesänger

You know, discussion.

Eric

I'm enjoying both sides of this discussion.

davyK

Kara_Jane_Addams wrote:

Fuck Nintendo.

I like Nintendo.

They resuscitated a videogame market in the US that was dormant. It was a pioneering time and no-one really knew what made the market work. The glut of rubbish for the 2600 was a factor of the crash. There were others (Warners sweating the ancient hardware way past its sell-by date) but expensive poor games were a significant part of it.

So Nintendo saw unlicenced releases as a threat. It could have happened again as far as they were concerned give the general lack of knowledge of the business. And as they were stumping up money to get it going I can see why they did what they did.

It became anti-competitive though - of that there is no doubt.

I for one am glad they survived the onslaught of Microsoft and Sony who don't really care about games. It isn't in their DNA the way it is with Nintendo. They don't want to control all of your viewing content.

I'm glad they are still around but noone should make the mistake of assuming they commercially and legally act in a way that is compatible with their cute output.

Kara_Jane_Addams

davyK wrote:

Kara_Jane_Addams wrote:

Fuck Nintendo.

I like Nintendo.

They resuscitated a videogame market in the US that was dormant. It was a pioneering time and no-one really knew what made the market work. The glut of rubbish for the 2600 was a factor of the crash. There were others (Warners sweating the ancient hardware way past its sell-by date) but expensive poor games were a significant part of it.

So Nintendo saw unlicenced releases as a threat. It could have happened again as far as they were concerned give the general lack of knowledge of the business. And as they were stumping up money to get it going I can see why they did what they did.

It became anti-competitive though - of that there is no doubt.

I for one am glad they survived the onslaught of Microsoft and Sony who don't really care about games. It isn't in their DNA the way it is with Nintendo. They don't want to control all of your viewing content.

I'm glad they are still around but noone should make the mistake of assuming they commercially and legally act in a way that is compatible with their cute output.

I’m in Europe.

Nintendo always overlooked us.

So fuck ‘em.

At least Sega pretended to appreciate us.

And the licensing had sod all to do with quality, hence it contained clauses that companies couldn’t release games for other systems.

They wanted the industry to themselves, luckily they failed.

davyK

Sega screwed us over too. We got shit - and I mean really shit - Megadrive PAL ports.

Nintendo did some work on most of their big games.

I'm not saying they loved us in Europe - far from it - but technically they cared more for the quality of product than Sega did.

dynamiteReady

Minnesänger wrote:

He can like the NES. I just thought the reasoning was weak.

Man... I can't help you neophilic cunts. :'P

retroking1981

This has got a bit off topic and out of hand.

Nintendo tried to monopolise the market because they're a business. Why wouldn't they?

Let's not pretend any of these companies care about anything more than profit, it all comes down to that at the end of the day.

Microsoft, Nike, Disney, Unilever... they just want our money.

Howdy, Stranger!

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