Online In-Line?
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  • A thread to discuss good and bad implementation of online functionality in games. This isn't about whether a game is good or bad, it's about whether the online components are functional, well thought out and / or easy-to-use. 

    (A note: Because internet can be shitty in China, I'll personally refrain from slagging games for things such as regular disconnects, as that could well be an issue on my side)

    This is a thread to praise games that get online functions very right, and rail against those that get it wrong. Feel free to be as nit-picky as you want - sometimes annoyances are small, but they add up after 200 hours of play. 

    The game I'll bring up as a mostly very good example of online functionality is Monster Hunter: World

    The excellent:

    Right off the bat, Monster Hunter World does several things very, very right.

    1. SoS - Firstly, in this game you can jump into games with randoms by searching for SoS signals, which players can send up when they start a mission. This is a call for help or company. Players can search for SoSes they want to do according to rank, type of mission (assignment, investigation etc.), by monster type and by whether there are rewards available (if you join a mission more than 10 minutes after it starts, you won't get full quest rewards). This means if I want to hunt a specific monster, of help a player of a certain level, I can easily do so through the SoS system. 

    2. Session choice - Similarly, when you start the game you will join a "session" - think of this like a personal server. You can just join a random public one, and you'll see quests that other people in your session post and can join if you want. If you just want solo play, you can start a personal session, and invite friends in. Or, you can join a squad (read: clan) session. So you have choices. But, there's 2 things that make this great:

    2.1. Drop-in Coop - You can still see SoS signals from other sessions - they're not just from yours. So you can have a solo session, AND still choose to help out randos (or get help from randos) easily. SoS signals cross sessions.

    2.2. Game Finding - Let's say I want to do arena quests. A lot of people don't want to do arena quests where you fight a certain monster with pre-set gear (not your own build) - they're somewhat niche. Well, when I choose to join a public session, I can filter what type of session I choose. In this case, i'd like to join a session for people who want to do arena quests - the game will then give me a list of sessions started by people who want to do Arenas, as well as tell me what type of session it is (Looking for High Skill players / Anyone is welcome etc.) AND also tell me how populated it is. This means there's no need for LFG reddit threads and the like. In addition, there are some "siege" monsters who can't be easily beaten by low-level random players, but progress for one group in a session helps the whole session. As certain players do more damage to the monster while they are fighting it, the whole session reaches a higher reward level and makes the monster easier to fight for successive groups. When the monster is beaten, all players in the session can collect rewards. This encourages group play, as everyone contributes. 

    The good:

    1. Communication - When you perform an action in the game, such as mounting a monster, your character will do a shout-out such as "I mounted it!". Similar to Final Fantasy MMOs, this game features pre-set phrases which are auto-translated into the local language of the player. This makes cross-language play super-easy. I spent a fair amount of time with a Japanese player yesterday in the Arena, funnily enough, and we got by without hassle. I could see what weapons he picked, and what he was doing, while the game translated shoutouts for me whenever he weakened a monster of we healed each other. It's a small thing, but it's great. The Japanese player also opted to join the BnB squad...so there's that, too. 

    1.2. (Text) Chat - If you hold down the touchpad (on PS4) in the game, you bring up a list of recent shoutouts. The game also offers some choices depending on button presses - shoutouts, gestures (think, emotes), and keyboard...yes, keyboard. Conventional thinking is that text chat is a PC-only thing, but Monster Hunter offers in-game text chat in-session and in-mission. Plus, there's stickers and shoutouts for quick and easy communication if you want to convey something simple, or you are playing with someone who uses a different language. 

    1.3. Conversation choice - simple enough, this. You can make messages personal or send them to a specific player. Again, this wouldn't be anything major on PC, but it's nice to see it implemented well on console. 

    2. Background help - Before you go on a hunt, you should have a meal. You can pay for it using cash, but you can also use "voucher". Vouchers are finite and you need to earn more, but they have a couple of bonuses. Firstly, they guarantee some bonuses from the meal, but they also make it free for anyone else in the gathering hub (or you have joined a quest with) at that time to eat. It's a nice gesture that encourages helping others and i always like rolling up to eat a meal and seeing it's already been paid for on my behalf. 

    The mostly good:

    1. Gathering Hubs - In the main hub you can't see anyone else, but if you walk through to the gathering hub (which requires a loading screen), you can see other players in your session (as long as they are also in the gathering hub). The problem with the gathering hub is that there's several things that often require you to go back to the main area to access every few missions, such as your garden, bounties and your tailrider safari (you can send you Palicos out to get items for you and they'll return after 5 missions). When Iceborne launched, they moved a lot of this stuff into the new gathering hub, which is great, and they added a tailrider window in the main area so you no longer needed to enter your home to access your tailrider safari. BUT, they still didn't make it easy to access the tailrider safari in the new gathering hub, without entering your room. They mostly got the new hub right, but it has one or two annoying quirks. It's so nearly right, but it's not quite there, and it forces you to interrupt multiplayer sessions, or miss out on bonuses.  

    2. (Squad) Session controls - if you are in control of a squad or a session, there's actually some really nice options at your disposal. You can boot problem players, for example. However, there's a couple of issues. Firstly, if you are a squad leader, you have to be online to accept new members. This can make juggling timezones to let someone join your squad difficult. There was also no option to change leaders for a squad or set a deputy on your behalf. This was mostly fixed with Iceborne. They made it so you could auto-accept squad join requests even when offline, which means you no longer need to be online to let someone in, which is great. AND, they added a "sub-leader" function, so you can make someone your deputy. BUT, they made it so that when you make someone the deputy, they need to be online to accept. Again, so close, but not quite right. 

    3. Missions continue after disconnect - Monster Hunter will keep you in a mission without a hitch, even if you get disconnected from your multiplayer partner. You'll both still be in the mission, and the difficulty will scale down to single-player level. Disconnects aren't good, but this game handles them pretty seamlessly. Except for...

    The bad:

    1. Dropping Out and rejoining - sometimes you get disconnected from a quest. It happens. Especially if you are me. You can rejoin quests pretty easily, but the game doesn't recognise that you were previously in a mission. Why is this a big problem? Because lets say you do 35 minutes of a mission, then get disconnected. You rejoin and help your partner finish the mission. Because you rejoined at the 35 minute mark, you won't get quest rewards because it's after the 10 minute threshold. So, you can do 99% of a mission and still miss out. It's an annoyance as there are games that manage to get this right.

    The Ugly:

    1. Cutscenes and co-op - Monster Hunter is a great multiplayer game, but Capcom kinda shit the bed on co-oping the campaign. Let's say my friend and I are at the same point in the story - one of us can post the next quest and the other can join, then we can do it together. Right? Wrong! You can't join a quest until both you AND your partner have seen the cutscene for that quest. But, cutscenes don't happen at the start of the mission (mostly), they happen after you find the monster, which can take 5-10 minutes. So, in order to co-op, you'll both post your own quests, both start the quest, both get to and watch the cutscene, then one will drop out and join the other player, and then you can do the mission together. It's just...weird, and a pain in the arse.

    The Verdict:

    Monster Hunter World actually has really good online functionality, imo, albeit with some bizarre quirks. A lot of the choices present would be ones seen most often on PC, and it proves that giving choices doesn't make something hard to use. Most games give fuck all choice re. text chat, in-game chat, server choice, because there's a perception that fewer choices = easier-to-use. However, despite having a lot more menus and options, it's easier for me to find help for an activity it MH than it is in Destiny, because the latter forces you to find people on your friend list of go to an LFG group. Overall, very good.
  • ?imw=374&imh=88&ima=fit&impolicy=Letterbox&imcolor=%23000000&letterbox=true

    The bane of my life. Couldn’t slag the game for that, though - as noted, most of that could be China-side in my case.
  • FUCKING.... MONSTER HUNTER... CUTSCENES

    FUUUUUUUUUCK
  • Everybody's Golf on the PS3.

    Notorious already for how the console handled its many updates, imagine that but worse. The game itself would have its own updates and patches applied by the PS3 OS, then if you went into online mode, it'd have its own patches. Again, each one needing downloaded and installed, PS3 needing double the space cos of the stupid way it handled that stuff.

    Excruciating. See also: Metal Gear Online.
  • PES Online. May technically be as much (if not more of) a UI issue as connectivity, i'm not even sure whether or not the game actually performs well online....it's just such a fucking pain to even try to find or join a session that I usually give up before even getting to the game.
    "Like i said, context is missing."
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  • Tempy wrote:
    FUCKING.... MONSTER HUNTER... CUTSCENES

    FUUUUUUUUUCK

    Yar, baffling. And as a side-note I really wish MH had crossplay. I know there’s be some issues with PlayStation exclusive content so I get why there isn’t, but the game is so forward thinking for a console multiplayer game (when it comes to online features) that the lack of stuff like crossplay really sticks out now.
    Everybody's Golf on the PS3.

    Notorious already for how the console handled its many updates, imagine that but worse. The game itself would have its own updates and patches applied by the PS3 OS, then if you went into online mode, it'd have its own patches. Again, each one needing downloaded and installed, PS3 needing double the space cos of the stupid way it handled that stuff.

    Excruciating. See also: Metal Gear Online.

    Sounds horrid. Final Fantasy XIV was a similar pain to update, as you would download the game, but any updates after a main version or expansion had to downloaded in the game client, which meant you couldn’t background download (at least, this is how I remember it on PS3). Updates were often painfully slow and it took my days (literally) to get it all downloaded and patched after I first jumped on.

    Then you’d need to get a subscription, but that could only be bought after logging onto the FFXIV website and setting up all your details and licenses and, oh god, it was so ducking horrid. It’s why I don’t play FFVIX to this day, despite how good it is - it’s just hard to setup and I can’t be arsed.
    PES Online. May technically be as much (if not more of) a UI issue as connectivity, i'm not even sure whether or not the game actually performs well online....it's just such a fucking pain to even try to find or join a session that I usually give up before even getting to the game.

    What was the issue there?
  • regmcfly
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    Splatoon 2

    I need to have my Splatoon piece. Probably the most fun I've had online in the past few years and this is consistently despite poor implementation across the board for what is primarily an online game. It's not even "oh, it's Nintendo bad", it's actively bad and at times took teeth grindingly long slogs to get online, let alone with people on here.
    That I felt we had achieved some kind of wizardry when 3-4 of us were in a room together is a testament to this - but even then, that's not us being on the same party.
    And then there was the chat app.
  • Speedhaak
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    God I'd love to have the time to return a post of equal quality, top stuff cinty - great post. I remember thinking (when it first came out) that The Division had extremely intuitive and innovative online systems. Everything was seamless and the online infrastructure being superimposed over the gameplay was genius. I remember the first time I walked up to a mission and the UI for multiplayer just appeared in a nice tidy design next to my character prompting me to join or search for agents. 

    I always thought that was executed extremely well.
  • Rollback netcode mutter mutter
  • Did any variant of worms ever get a decent online component? I used to dream of online multiplayer worms, like with leagues or something.
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    GGPO

    edit: also I think a ps3 version of worms had online, I recall playing plenty of same room mp, but pretty sure I played it online as well
    "I spent years thinking Yorke was legit Downs-ish disabled and could only achieve lucidity through song" - Mr B
  • Shout out to MAG for raw numbers. Far from perfect, but it was a great bit of fun, and did Akot right in how it felt like a massive battle.

    I'm still great and you still love it.
  • Someone with a better memory needs to write a history of halo online.

    Bungie internal would be fascinating.

    The early optimism and community angle, which they mostly tried to maintain, combined with the slow realisation that a bunch of bigoted cheating assholes made up a solid subset of player base.

    The evolution of mute options alone is funny.

    I'm still great and you still love it.
  • As much as you got your fair share of cunts, I do miss the pre-party chat Halo days.
  • *Distorted dmx track through headphone speaker.*

    I'm still great and you still love it.
  • Party chat killed an aspect of online that whilst toxic in many ways, also gave me some standout / memorable moments.
  • Totally true.

    I'm still great and you still love it.
  • Speedhaak wrote:
    God I'd love to have the time to return a post of equal quality, top stuff cinty - great post. I remember thinking (when it first came out) that The Division had extremely intuitive and innovative online systems. Everything was seamless and the online infrastructure being superimposed over the gameplay was genius. I remember the first time I walked up to a mission and the UI for multiplayer just appeared in a nice tidy design next to my character prompting me to join or search for agents. 

    I always thought that was executed extremely well.

    Yeah, The Division is a really good shout. Super easy to matchmake while wandering around the world, difficulty tiers for events that are selectable etc. all layered onto the world UI and not requiring any menu hopping. They did a great job there.
    Facewon wrote:
    Someone with a better memory needs to write a history of halo online.

    Bungie internal would be fascinating.

    The early optimism and community angle, which they mostly tried to maintain, combined with the slow realisation that a bunch of bigoted cheating assholes made up a solid subset of player base.

    The evolution of mute options alone is funny.

    I assumed Halo would come up when I started the thread - but I don’t know enough about the series to make claims about the good / bad parts.

    From the outside, a lot of the online stuff seemed really comprehensive. Custom maps (forges? Was that Halo 3?), custom game modes, voice chat etc. They would have been coming up against some serious hardware and infrastructure constraints, especially at that time, and seemed to knock it out of the park. In reality, I have no idea how good it actually was, but I’d love to read people’s impressions of the strengths and weaknesses of the online systems in Halo.
    regmcfly wrote:
    Splatoon 2

    I need to have my Splatoon piece. Probably the most fun I've had online in the past few years and this is consistently despite poor implementation across the board for what is primarily an online game. It's not even "oh, it's Nintendo bad", it's actively bad and at times took teeth grindingly long slogs to get online, let alone with people on here.
    That I felt we had achieved some kind of wizardry when 3-4 of us were in a room together is a testament to this - but even then, that's not us being on the same party.
    And then there was the chat app.

    Such a weird choice for an MP focussed game to make getting matches with friends a struggle. I know they wanted to keep it super casual, but how exactly did it work?
  • The best things about halo 3 online were that matchmaking sort of worked most of the time, it felt more or less fair when you played, and it was quick - usually in a popular game type within a minute. Comprehensive party options helped too.

    It just worked most of the time
  • Until people started gaming the system with new accounts Truskill was wonderful. It still mostly worked, but late in the games life you'd get an increasing amount of people in the wrong bracket at my skill level.
  • I’m struggling to think of good examples. Plenty of bad though, mostly just find it frustrating when a game makes it complicated to join a friend playing or makes you jump through stupid hoops (FH, I’m looking at you, making us “unlock” mp access with new games and expansions)
    Not everything is The Best or Shit. Theres many levels between that, lets just enjoy stuff.
  • Hang on, good is FH2. Really stable and simple enough to play with mates.
    Bad is FH4, how did they fuck it up so much that playing online is a ball ache of constant disconnects and half the party being left out of races or unable to join the lobby.
    Not everything is The Best or Shit. Theres many levels between that, lets just enjoy stuff.
  • Speedhaak
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    Facewon wrote:
    Someone with a better memory needs to write a history of halo online. Bungie internal would be fascinating. The early optimism and community angle, which they mostly tried to maintain, combined with the slow realisation that a bunch of bigoted cheating assholes made up a solid subset of player base. The evolution of mute options alone is funny.

    Now that would be a fascinating read. Those guys were so ahead of the curve especially with Halo 2.
  • Speedhaak
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    I guess (re: my thoughts on The Division) there should be a mention of the Souls series as From employed a similar philosophy with their online compliment. I think the first time you see another players ghost and their inevitable demise is quite a special one or indeed the first time to read a sign that's been left to warn other players. The summon system (from the summoners point of view anyway) was also very non-intrusive and let you continue on with play while the other player entered your world without disruption. 

    I guess the running theme for me is seamless integration of online systems. The less you are aware of 'things going on in the background' the better the experience in my mind.
  • Oh yes. How did I forget about Dark Souls?
    Brilliant implementation of MP. It’s the little touches I love most, the hints of others all around you even though you’re very much alone. The ghosts of other players, the bloodstains left behind, the invasions, the messages left by other explorers and survivors, the sound of the bells ringing in the distance when another player is successful in the early game stages.
    It’s brilliant
    Not everything is The Best or Shit. Theres many levels between that, lets just enjoy stuff.
  • Apparently Capcom have fixed the SFV net code and will be releasing the patch next week.

    It just took a single hobbyist about a day to show them it could be done.
    SFV - reddave360
  • Second wookies shout with Forza Horizon. I love it dearly but if there's a game that's suffered from "just because you can doesn't mean that you should", it's FH4's online component.

    It's also a series than absolutely cannot for the life of itself use common MP terms. Lobby? No. Its a Convoy. Private Room for you and yer pals? No. It's a Online Adventure or some shit. Years on and none of us FNFers have a true grip on it all. Some nights it'll just flake for the fuck of it.
  • And after Forza Horizon got some things so very right, early on.

    The first time I drove past another real player and hit a single button to challenge them to a race, right there, right then … a finish line appeared on the map and we both buried the accelerator … it felt like magic.
  • Speedhaak
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    RedDave2 wrote:
    Apparently Capcom have fixed the SFV net code and will be releasing the patch next week. It just took a single hobbyist about a day to show them it could be done.

    As in fixed in from a hiccup with a recent patch of fixed it full-stop, since launch?
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