Misogyny and other gender issues.
  • Isn't the arguement that says "but all men are stereotyped in games too" redundant because they are for the most part represented better?
    It's redundant because a lot of men dig on that shit, and its purpose is not stereotyping that appeals to women. False equivalency arguments are the fuck.
    Exactly. Both the male and female stereotypes are for the tastes of men. Or rather, for the tastes of stereotypical men, which makes it a self-fulfilling circle of shite, or something.
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    If they're designed to appeal to male tastes that assumes any thought whatsoever goes into the characters in the first place, when for the vast majority of the time I'm certain there isn't. Game designers aren't clever enough to market to a demographic, they're just too lazy to think of anything new.
  • I found Bayonetta quite interesting regarding this topic. She's the very epitome of sexist video game fantasy but then turned up to 11. I started to think of her as the female equivalent of Duke Nukem - a parody, basically. I'm not sure how most feminists would react to her though, probably not favourably.
    You really are fond of chatting with me, aren't you? If I didn't know better, I'd think you had feelings for me!
  • Just popped from here to the Guardian and noticed this (apologies if it's already been linked to and I missed it):

    Does Tomb Raider's Lara Croft really have to be a survivor of a rape attempt?
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jun/13/tomb-raider-lara-croft-rape-attempt
  • It's a tough one to reckon. I think the protecting comment says more than the inclusion of a rape scene - or attempted rape. And there is perhaps an argument in here about how the men who are playing and want to fuck the character are going to be motivated by someone else trying to fuck the woman they control. Depends on how its executed, but an "attempted" rape sounds like cowardice on the part of the developers, wishing to have it both ways, keeping Lara Croft as pure, and having the weird hard drama buzz from sexual assault. Stating it in the marketing stage before release sounds like severe, strange cynicism. Also speaks to the inability of developers and publishers to imagine men who can imagine themselves as Lara Croft, which is a whole other box of eggs.
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    As usual, game makers are nuanced and delicate in their storytelling.
  • More or less hits the nail on the head for me. Why attempt to give back-story to iconic avatars anyway, female or otherwise? And Metroid M was a toe-curling, cringey affair - "Oh, Adam. Can I move a bit to the left please Adam, or does it offend you? Please, tell me what to do Adam!" Not expecting much more from Tomb Raider to be honest.
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  • Kow
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    Women need motivation to be powerful, men are naturally powerful. Try telling that to my Dark Souls character. She'll cut your balls off.
  • Also speaks to the inability of developers and publishers to imagine men who can imagine themselves as Lara Croft, which is a whole other box of eggs.

    Also this. Sadly I should imagine it's a large portion of the audience as well.
    You really are fond of chatting with me, aren't you? If I didn't know better, I'd think you had feelings for me!
  • I thought the article in The Guardian was interesting, mainly because the scene in mention (from what I remember of the trailer) was incredibly short. It just made me wonder whether they were making a bit of a mountain out of a mole hill. It will be have to be seen fully to be understood.

    I do agree with the poor representation of women in games in general (obviously with a few exceptions) but is it fair to identify games when it is, frankly, a media wide issue?
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  • Kow
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    It's not really a media wide issue. There are plenty of perfectly well defined women in cinema (outside of brainless blockbuster nonsense) and books and music.
  • Kow wrote:
    It's not really a media wide issue. There are plenty of perfectly well defined women in cinema (outside of brainless blockbuster nonsense) and books and music.

    Fair point, I definately agree with books and music, but film still has issues with women. As you have rightly pointed out, it is predominately the big blockbusters that are letting the format down. The one that stood out for me was the news that the Silent Hill film shoe-horned in the Sean Bean stuff because they didnt just want female leads.

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  • Haha. On cue there's a sexy costumes pack for Soul Calibur on PS Store. 
    Includes a nurse outfit for Sophitia and a cowgirl outfit for someone else.
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    It would be far more interesting if Nathan Drake got raped.
  • Deliverance style.
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  • I mentioned films earlier, ironic that I'm now watching 'The Help'. A film with a practically all female cast!

    Kow, I believe your comment was spot on!
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    Fentonizer wrote:
    There is a test for films (the name escapes me) that I'd like to try on video games.
    The Bechdel test. Probably wouldn't work for most games, even if you are playing as a woman who's talking to a woman, they'd probably still be talking about killing a man. Anyway Showgirls passes the Bechdel test so I'm not sure it's that meaningful.

  • ...the Silent Hill film shoe-horned in the Sean Bean stuff...

    How dare you.

    Sean Bean was cast entirely on his own merits!

    You tell me another leading actor or actress who can fire three rounds a minute in any weather.
    Don't try and place me in a box, you cocks. If there's one thing I'm not, it's fucking rectangular.
  • Only thing that worries me in all these gender-n-media discussions is that there's no way of knowing exactly what female gender identity/sexuality really looks like 'raw' now and for times to come, in that dudes have held the reins for so long their models very easily permeate womens' self images and worth. Shit is a bit fucked up; much, much healing and reform is due.
  • Or is this just the natural order of things? Unpalatable as that may seem.

    /controversial faggotry
    Don't try and place me in a box, you cocks. If there's one thing I'm not, it's fucking rectangular.
  • I'm going to suggest no. Moreover, it's irrelevant. The species has made thousands of years of a point of saying "fuck you" to nature.
  • Hey I'm not saying it is, I'm not saying I believe it, but this shit has been going since we came out of the African basins it would seem.

    Technically as a species, it would appear to be the status quo, along with fighting over territory at the drop of a hat.

    Edit: I blame this all on our Chimpy forefathers. If only we had descended from Bonobos. They just sit around and chill all day.
    Don't try and place me in a box, you cocks. If there's one thing I'm not, it's fucking rectangular.
  • Well yes, that helps define the to-do list.
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    Would quite like to watch these videos because I'm not really sure what her point is going to be.
  • Her point is less Dead or Alive Extreme Besch Volleyball and more Diet Coke ads or something.

    I think she wants a more realistic portrayal of real women in games and stuff. You know, like a Washing Up: EX+ Alpha or Metal Gear Shopping: Daughters of Grier.
    Don't try and place me in a box, you cocks. If there's one thing I'm not, it's fucking rectangular.
  • Little Franklin
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    Well as long as we don't have to have more realistic portrayals of men so games can still be fun.
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    Don't try and place me in a box, you cocks. If there's one thing I'm not, it's fucking rectangular.
  • Roujin wrote:

    ...the Silent Hill film shoe-horned in the Sean Bean stuff...

    How dare you.

    Sean Bean was cast entirely on his own merits!

    You tell me another leading actor or actress who can fire three rounds a minute in any weather.

    Oh don't get me wrong, I bloody love Ned Stark Sean Bean! He was just a tiny bit lost and pointless in that film.
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  • Here's a good blog that was mentioned in An EDGE a while ago. - Go Make Me a Sandwich

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