Misogyny and other gender issues.
  • Facewon wrote:
    ...
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/sep/03/the-myth-of-the-free-speech-crisis This is good too. Tangent in here, but interesting in terms of discussion around mobs etc.
    It's ironic because the right-wing shitheel grifters are, more often than not, pro-capitalism and vehemently anti-socialism - so the logical play for any of them who have been no-platformed/ "silenced/censored" from conferences, Youtube, Twitter, Paypal etc. would be for them to set up their own channels. Presumably Breitbart are still going.
    Predictably, nearly every single effort they've made has fallen to pieces either through technical ineptitude or one of the grifters running off with the cash (or both).

    I'd love to see the right-whingers like Breitbart etc who bang on about "free speech" all the time provide space on their platforms for ISIS to do some of their free speech.
  • Right wing in the US has been doing this shit for years. Its their go to. We wont be silenced! (even though they have numerous websites, fox news, get interviewed on all American networks all the time). There's an old clip on youtube with jon stewart calling out Sarah Palin for this kind of bullshit. 

    SFV - reddave360
  • Thanks Andy. Usual reddave link fail....
    SFV - reddave360
  • When you’re using the video tags, just use the eleven digit identifier, not the full url.
  • Having banged on about it in 2 other threads, I'm going to mention trigger warnings by Jeff Sparrow in here too.

    He nails so much and it covers so much. And has footnotes to some great stuff that's online which I'll get to sharing.

    His history of all the terms and their limitations etc is brilliant.
    I'm still great and you still love it.
  • https://twitter.com/Vanessa_ABee/status/1170752431468306434?s=19

    2 quick screen grabs from an nyt article. (I think it's nyt)

    A good example of why I grow warier and warier of "the accuser is crazy/unreliable" narratives.
    I'm still great and you still love it.
  • Confirmed: Andy can be arsed with imgur and/or is on laptop.

    Cheers.
    I'm still great and you still love it.
  • Never bother with imgur. My iPad has a handy ‘open in Safari’ option on twitter images, which gives me a direct source.

    (I actually now have a second twitter account which I use purely as a dropbox / imgur / whatever alternative for hosting images, since they’ve dropped their public folders / become a pain to get direct links / whatever.)
  • https://twitter.com/thegenderfairy1/status/1176647051758583808?s=19

    "New paper smashes “transantagonistic” theories

    “We are experiencing a surge of new and renewed arguments being mobilized in opposition to trans youth care. These arguments aim at bypassing the existing scientific literature”

    https://t.co/KDLFIgBgJ6"

    I think I'm starting to see the trees in the forest on trans stuff.

    I'm still great and you still love it.
  • 0xpSEhE.png
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  • https://contingentmagazine.org/2019/10/01/transphobia-philosophy/

    "In other words, philosophers are a bit blinded by the (genuine) power of their formal methods. A syllogism might be perfect, but the light of that perfection blinds philosophers to everything beyond that syllogism: its place in a tradition of thought, its role in the world we live in, the social position of its author. But since none of that is necessary to adjudicate the syllogism’s formal validity, none of it “matters.” "

    Very good articulation of the problem for stock and co.

    See also the race realist/"classical lib" dude bro crews.
    I'm still great and you still love it.
  • why modern feminist and queer movements embrace intersectionality and oppose trans exclusion is so they can avoid the schisms and infighting that tore apart the earlier movement

    I don’t think this is ever really ever feasible in perpetuity because eventually individuals really set aside their commonality when they see their individual ideals threatened. Surely the motivation to act has to come from some individual pain and if that isn’t being soothed the. you get splits?

    Even when there are collective agreements or ostensible harmonies there are always background frictions and agitations.

  • GooberTheHat
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    People just need to stop being dicks to each other.
  • Paywall FML.

    Meanwhile, this seems a good thread from mermaids....


    "...showing that 'detransition' rates are very low: less than 1% in a number of intl studies, incl. the report below, which found of 3,398 trans patients who'd accessed NHS support, 16 expressed regret, and only 3 made a long-term detransition. 7/"
    https://t.co/ncUxUaDG3y https://t.co/SZxE3vrDaJ

    That's only one Tweet from the thread, but I picked it because I think the raw numbers there are important. If self identity was as flakey or wishy washy as anti-trans folks would have you believe, or if the "positive/affirmative approach" (forgive me if I've forgotten correct phrase) really was as brainwashy and ott as claimed by anti-trans folks, those numbers would be much much higher, IMO.

    I'm still great and you still love it.
  • That is entirely a question of framing. Look at the numbers of people accessing the one NHS centre, how fast it is increasing, and ask the question - have we left enough time to assess the consequence? The cautionary remarks by those who left that centre also referred to these numbers - the utterly low number of people who choose not to transition who access the service, which when you consider the age of the children is out of step with all expectation or research. The fear is that children who might just be experiencing growing fangs, or who might simply be gay, are being processed as trans.

    Either these stats are right and HOLD up, which will take years to assess (possibly 1 decade), in which case the prior research /theory is demonstrated to be false, or the numbers will swing. Next year it'll be 10, then 30, 90, 300, 1000.... And that is just people who respond. How many will make it to answer a survey if they experience regret at losing a sexual organ?

    So there you are. If you are a social conservative of sorts, you'll worry. If you think more power to you, you won't. What we can surely all agree on is, this is an important question and what mermaids does in that tweet - associate all criticism with transphobia in an emotionally charged tweet - is I'll advised.

    Don't wank. Zinc in your sperms
  • Tweet thread, so they cover a bit more ground.

    You're framing it as if there isn't already data.

    Like the recent explosion means there was NOTHING to go on before.

    It seems to me there's actually quite a bit of info, and the more I've read, and I've been able to stay out of a bubble because there's some clear leaders on both sides who can put best arguments forward, the anti-trans/conservative/terf side seem on far weaker ground.

    Kathleen stock I have the most time for on that side, but even then, her analytical philosophy angle on it falls into exactly the same trap that IDW/"classical liberal" rationalists fall into.

    We already have more than a decade of data, surely.

    I'm still great and you still love it.
  • You've ignored my point entirely, I can't be bothered.

    Clue: the data you linked to. How long has it been. How long before it can be seen to be reliable.
    Don't wank. Zinc in your sperms
  • I haven't ignored it, I said I thought it had been long enough. (linking through to said data, it seems I've gone a little early, in that most of the studies mention a lack of data from the off, but then just within that one journal, those same studies are aiming to fill in that gap, and they seem to range in length between 1 year follow ups and 5-7 year follow ups.)

    And at a glance they all seem to lean in the pro affirmation/treatment camp.

    The further issue, flipping this around, is whenever I've tried to go down the rabbit hole of sources and links for the anti side, the data is even thinner. It's a lot of circle jerking blog to blog linking by a handful of folks. Very similar to climate change denial blogs, to be frank.

    (pretty sure I've linked to some stuff I've read in this very thread.)
    I'm still great and you still love it.
  • cockbeard
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    1-7 year is not long enough, or if it is long enough then elective surgery (even hormone therapy) should be restricted to those who have waited for those 7 years without any changing of their mind, no?

    edit: especialy if part of that period is as a child, whatever happened to informed consent??
    "I spent years thinking Yorke was legit Downs-ish disabled and could only achieve lucidity through song" - Mr B
  • Facewon wrote:
    The further issue, flipping this around, is whenever I've tried to go down the rabbit hole of sources and links for the anti side, the data is even thinner. It's a lot of circle jerking blog to blog linking by a handful of folks. Very similar to climate change denial blogs, to be frank.

    (pretty sure I've linked to some stuff I've read in this very thread.)


    https://twitter.com/christapeterso/status/1179137892683137024?s=09

    Here's a good example of the problems I'm seeing from terf land now. (and I think even just my posting in this thread will allow me to say I've given em a fair go, and am still uncomfortable with how it seems to lead to a bit of a beat down on older feminists.)

    In above Tweet we have Kathleen stock diving head first into some evo psych stuff with a guy by the name of Colin Wright.

    His claim to fame appears to be trying to bring back race science and making up a fallacy.

    This thread...

    https://twitter.com/itsbirdemic/status/1134070441830682624?s=09

    ... Does as good a job as I've seen of explaining the issues with, well, all the stuff Murray/Bell curve/quillette nuff nuffs have been sprouting.

    It has links and screen grabs from some surprisingly clearly written academic stuff.

    I am just a layman, and these are just small sections of larger studies, but it's the sort of thing I keep seeing. Terfs latching on to fringe idea, working academics coming in with the detailed rebuttal and wealth of info.

    I'm still great and you still love it.
  • Got a feeling our man Jeff goldblum about to be metooed.
    I'm still great and you still love it.
  • There's a reporter actively looking for women to come forward. Sounds like she already has the beginnings of a story and is piecing together.

    I'm guessing and it's random twitter shit hence I'm not even gonna link to it. I could be wrong.

    Don't hold me to it.
    I'm still great and you still love it.
  • cockbeard
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    Well he's got a new album and telly program out soon or recently. Might it even be a marketing campaign in today's cyncial world?
    "I spent years thinking Yorke was legit Downs-ish disabled and could only achieve lucidity through song" - Mr B
  • As far as marketing campaigns go, I don’t think starting rumours that you’re a sex pest is the right way to go.
  • Hi..I’m...er, a Jeff...Goldblum and I, among other things, like to, um, abuse my power and, well, yes, solicit favours using fear or, um, the, er, recrimination.

    While I’m at it, I might as well, in all honesty, say, er, the following...

    One, I only punch down
    Two, all lives matter
    And, um, three, maybe draining the, you know, the, er, swamp, isn’t the worst idea.

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