Work - The pros and the cons...
  • Wait..also, congrats man.
  • Skerret
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    If you're confident you could land a gig elsewhere then all the more reason to ask for 10% with justification. Nothing scares up a salary like the prospect of going elsewhere, several examples of that occurred locally in the last month.

    As G says you're an asset however distasteful that is, so assert your value. Unless you are a bitcoin.
    Skerret's posting is ok to trip balls to and read just to experience the ambience but don't expect any content.
    "I'm jealous of sucking major dick!"~ Kernowgaz
  • Unfortunately, the civil service here is pretty much immune to that argument Sk. They always figure there is someone able to fill the gap (however poorly the fit).
  • What % would the top end of the band be? I guess that's the most you can expect. If that's not much more than 5%, then you've got to question the value of taking the role - as you don't seem convinced. If it's more like 10-20%, then ask for that. Bands in local government are normally around £3k from top to bottom, so that's not a lot for loads more responsibility. Not sure about the comparison to Civil Service though. Also depends whether you see yourself picking up skills for the 'next' job and that may be where the value is at.
  • Escape
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    Skerret wrote:
    If you're confident you could land a gig elsewhere

    Depends on the band.
  • Skerret
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    Sabbath
    Skerret's posting is ok to trip balls to and read just to experience the ambience but don't expect any content.
    "I'm jealous of sucking major dick!"~ Kernowgaz
  • Skerret
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    Unfortunately, the civil service here is pretty much immune to that argument Sk. They always figure there is someone able to fill the gap (however poorly the fit).
    Mm I don't know the CS at all really
    Skerret's posting is ok to trip balls to and read just to experience the ambience but don't expect any content.
    "I'm jealous of sucking major dick!"~ Kernowgaz
  • At Game I ended up resenting the company because they only offered me the bottom end of the pay band the job was advertised at when I felt both the job and myself was worth more. So I'd be wary of that. Before you accept I'd make sure that you really want to do this and would be happy to do it for the pay offered.

    Whatever you decide though, congratulations.
  • In terms of progression, it's a good thing. I'll probably accept it. A 5% bump probably puts me above my existing manager and 2 of the others. It's ridiculous but I can't ask to be on more than them, one of them a woman. Civil service itf. I still will do my best, but really the game is stacked against "stayers", it's designed for "movers" - hop across different departments and bodies. Anyway, in four years time who knows what I'll do. Probably get out of London entirely. Glasgow beckons I think.
  • God I can't wait to get out if this office.
    Did about 6 months here and and off last year and I had forgotten how much it drove me insane. Have done 4 days this week and I'm clock watching.

    Far to many systems and over filing of shit means I spend more time tarting around with files than doing anything creative.
    They have a strict scheduling system with bookings for certain teams but half the project managers manipulate it leaving the creatives in the shit. Giving 3D guys 2D projects with half the time it would take even a 2D guy to do it.

    Half the staff are too scared to say anything so they just roll with it. They offered me a job and there is no way the salary matched what people are expected to be able to do. Who can seriously say they are proffesional level 3D designer, visualiser, artworker and graphic designers versed in After Effect, Illustrator, cinema4D and Photoshop with hand drawn and copywriting skills? Not to mention the masters degree in book keeping required just to get to files.
  • davyK
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    legaldinho wrote:
    In terms of progression, it's a good thing. I'll probably accept it. A 5% bump probably puts me above my existing manager and 2 of the others. It's ridiculous but I can't ask to be on more than them, one of them a woman. Civil service itf. I still will do my best, but really the game is stacked against "stayers", it's designed for "movers" - hop across different departments and bodies. Anyway, in four years time who knows what I'll do. Probably get out of London entirely. Glasgow beckons I think.

    That's a good point about hoppers - it seems specialism, or at least profound expertise is not valued as a rule. I'd have to leave IT to have a crack at further advancement in my organisation.
    Holding the wrong end of the stick since 2009.
  • davyK
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    However...I believe I'm adequately paid and I have a pretty good work/life balance. Have no real complaints.
    Holding the wrong end of the stick since 2009.
  • My work/life balance is gonna go down the can if I actually try to do the job as it needs to be done.
  • Sounds like this is minimum reward for a significant increase in workload and stress.  Unless that extra 5% is going to make a meaningful difference to you it sounds like the more relevant consideration is whether this is likely to be useful in terms of career progression if you choose to move on.  i.e. does being a band whatever +1 make you more attractive to other employers than your current band whatever. 

    Of course if you're planning to stay where you are this is moot. 

    Also this is not moot, this is Unlikely.

    Regards,

    Unlikely
  • Career progression is one reason to take it. I think I will take it, but look to move jobs after a year or two, if something comes up. Or build a rep and do consultancy.
  • Makes sense to me, based on what little I know about how your industry works.
  • God I can't wait to get out if this office. Did about 6 months here and and off last year and I had forgotten how much it drove me insane. Have done 4 days this week and I'm clock watching. Far to many systems and over filing of shit means I spend more time tarting around with files than doing anything creative. They have a strict scheduling system with bookings for certain teams but half the project managers manipulate it leaving the creatives in the shit. Giving 3D guys 2D projects with half the time it would take even a 2D guy to do it. Half the staff are too scared to say anything so they just roll with it. They offered me a job and there is no way the salary matched what people are expected to be able to do. Who can seriously say they are proffesional level 3D designer, visualiser, artworker and graphic designers versed in After Effect, Illustrator, cinema4D and Photoshop with hand drawn and copywriting skills? Not to mention the masters degree in book keeping required just to get to files.

    i know what you mean. Fortunately for me, being decent/more than capable at video, motion graphics and graphics design puts me in a good position on paper. I've also had experience at a design agency, a busy magazine studio and running my own motion graphics business. But I will admit I'm very much a master of none, and while i have dabbled in Cinema 4d, i've only really focused on animation and lighting, rather than say modelling, theres just too much to learn and very little time to do it.

    Having said that I don't think you can really be just a designer these days, pretty much every single application for a graphics designer will ask for video or web experience on top.
  • For sure. I lean towards 3D and Motion graphics, all be it somewhat basic on the mograph. Really not into the artworking end of stuff. I'm alright chucking together something for a visual but don't be asking me to do pixel perfect lockups or ready something for sending to a printers.

    The thing I find weird there is that they have me in as a 3D freelancer but 3D guys are generally more expensive than 2D guys at the same level, so it's costing them more to probably get a worse result.

    Oh well, week over now and not back there next week. Working from home thank god.
    A bit of 3D and Photoshop comping this weekend then a nice little motion graphics movie for Rowse honey during the week.
  • That company sounds like a sinking ship, either that or the staff are just willing to go the extra mile for less. 

    I've kind of settled for the simple life, i'm in the best job ever at the moment where I can flex my generalist skills well, its a bit of a luxury and I know I'm extremely lucky. 

    I also freelance, but gone are the days where I seek a meaty video/motion job, despite that being my thing. I now settle for quick and easy print jobs, I find it far less hassle, quick turnaround and generally very easy money for the length of time it takes me.
  • It's more the staff accepting it TBH. They are fairly big with regular well paying clients but it's real cyclical stuff. Mostly retail focused so a bit of a production line of seasonal campaigns etc. Pretty dull.
    There are very talented people there but very little fire (not fire like Pop's place).

    I actually feel my confidence in my work drop at this place as the work is just so safe I can't add anything. Doesn't help when I get brand guidelines etc after I've done the work of course. Or like today where I was given brand guidelines and a brief that was basically the opposite.

    I think I just like working solo now or in smaller teams. I like the sense of owning a project and/or collaborating as a team effort. This place feels a bit automaton.

    Ze design machine cannot be stopped, production must be efficient!
  • davyK
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    Day 3 of our server room move.

    Servers, network, storage all seem to be up and running.

    Had a bleak period 7pm-8pm on the Saturday when the virtual servers wouldn't migrate between hosts and our web servers were sulking.

    A restart of the vm-ware management server sorted the VMs eventually (who would have known?) and a missing VLAN config got the hosts communicating.

    Then we discovered the IP address config of the web servers had been wiped for some reason - got that sorted and our websites came back which was - you know - nice.

    We also experienced a couple of  network switch failures that we had to replace. Shrugs.

    At one point we lost a server (which we found - I was spared the details of that) - and we also realised we had left an FTP appliance behind after the delivery team had gone - so that one was transported in the boot of my car swaddled in bubble wrap.

    Also some prat had illegally parked outside our old location and the delivery van couldn't get out of the car park. Police were called - advised to "bump" push the car out of the way. Jesus.

    Our solutions teams are in today testing everything. A few issues getting some databases up and services running - but it's "normal" IT niggles now which we will work through

    Phew.

    I am immensely proud of how well "my" teams planned and worked together on this. A few characters who retired just under a year ago cast long shadows but were problematic personalities. A lot of guys came out of those shadows to stand up and be counted. Excellent stuff.

    Numb.
    Holding the wrong end of the stick since 2009.
  • Top work Davy.
    I hope you guys get paid well because networking seems like a total nightmare to me.
  • davyK
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    Networking becomes more complicated when you are in the business of hosting websites and managing DMZs. We have a separate team who manage the firewalls so that in itself can create issues.

    We also run telephony over the network (most do now) which means there is zero tolerance for outages. People are used to PCs misbehaving - not phones.  That adds to the pressure a bit.
    Holding the wrong end of the stick since 2009.
  • davyK
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    The server/storage environment is more complicated now too.

    Server virtualisation is great technology but the relationship between server hosts and network attached storage can be hair raising; not to mention the virtual networking that goes on inside server hosts facilitating comms between virtual machines.
    Holding the wrong end of the stick since 2009.
  • acemuzzy
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    Fun times. Glad it's gone well. I'm kinda on the other side, making products that run virtualized, and advising customers on whether they're migratable, etc. It's a right ballache! Though we have to do OpenStack as well as VMware, and things are even shonkier...
  • legaldinho...as a civil servant myself I’m assuming you’re at the top (or close to) the top of your current band so the jump isn’t that high to the next one?

    I thought that any promotion to a new band had to have a 10% (might be 15%) increase on your old salary, putting you higher up the new pay band if necessary. It’ll be in the department/ALB’s terms and conditions for sure. Check the Intranet. Everything’s on the Intranet somewhere!
  • lastant wrote:
    legaldinho...as a civil servant myself I’m assuming you’re at the top (or close to) the top of your current band so the jump isn’t that high to the next one? I thought that any promotion to a new band had to have a 10% (might be 15%) increase on your old salary, putting you higher up the new pay band if necessary. It’ll be in the department/ALB’s terms and conditions for sure. Check the Intranet. Everything’s on the Intranet somewhere!

    Yes it's either 10% or low end of new band, whichever is more in a lot of civil service now. My particular area hasn't adopted this new pay structure yet.... not sure it's the best/.
    I'm falling apart to songs about hips and hearts...
  • The lack of consistency across different department/ALBs that’s the most confusing - can be five or six thousand pounds difference in salary for the same grade which doesn’t seem right.

    I do miss the days of progression through the scale. For every complaint it may not have been justified/fair to get it for time served, it did stop people applying for promotions purely for the pay increase as seems to be happening more and more since the freeze.

    At least they’ve kicked the yearly reviews (with mid-point). Far better without that in place.
  • I arrived at work this morning, hopped off my bike and leant it against the bin in front of the cycle racks as I normally do whilst I take off my helmet and get my lock out, only to discover that the bin was on fire.

    I rushed into reception to inform them, and their answer was "yeah, we want a smoker to put it out, because they're the ones who caused it.

    It is just me that thinks this is totally fucking unacceptable?
  • Yossarian
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    Absolutely. They have no proof a smoker started it.

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