Better than a Keyboard and Mouse?
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  • Many thanks to ViKtory(wololo.net) and Xian Nox(wololo.net) for their contributions toward this revised version of “Better than a Keyboard and Mouse?”.
    There are still a few bits to do. I am also mildly dyslexic so please a little be forgiving, thanks.

    Forward

    What follows is a concept at the heart of a document that contained more. A document which I sent to Gabe Newell of Valve in 2008, he never replied and probably never even read it. He is far from being the only person I’ve contacted in relation to what follows.
    This system utilises standard Wii hardware to create a control system that not only emulates the functionality of the PC’s keyboard and mouse system but also adds to it.

    I would like to stress that this system was designed with Wii hardware for Wii hardware(The Wii and now also the Wii-U, which also supports the original Wii’s controllers). When I designed this there was no other hardware capable of supporting it. It is not meant in any way to replace a gaming PC or the Keyboard and Mouse setup used by PC gamers.
    This system is meant to bring the accuracy and immediacy of the Keyboard and Mouse system to the console market. You will see, and hopefully agree, that it also enables some things that have not previously been possible.
    New games are the prime intention for its use.
    Sony’s Move is also fully capable of supporting this system, though Microsoft’s Kinect is not. I take a brief look at Kinect’s problems later. In some ways the Move technology is superior to the Wii’s and is now included alongside the Wii version throughout this document(thanks to ViKtory’s request). While the technology that drives these the Move and Wii controllers differs, the way in which they function within your hands is almost identical.

    PC emulation is only desirable if Nintendo or Sony were to, not only bring a system like this to market but also, set up something similar to Valve’s Steam. This would give those console gamers, who do not currently play PC games, access to one of the greatest game libraries in existence
    I would not expect PC gamers to ditch their PC’s just to play games in the same way on different hardware, a way that may not suit them as much, nor would I expect people to buy something like this just to play PC games. I would however think that console gamers would love access to PC games on a machine that they would buy regardless of whether it did this or not.

    This is where I think Valve may have misjudged the market in terms of its planned Steam based hardware. It would have been far quicker and easier to work with one of the major console manufactures, guaranteeing instant access to their vast user base while avoiding the pitfalls of entering the hardware market themselves… I am probably wrong, we will all find out soon enough.

    I discuss PC emulation in a separate section much later on, until then please forget about it totally.


    1) The Wii and Move controllers (Please read this!)

    It is important that you read this even if you are familiar with these controllers. There are a couple of points made here that are vital to understanding why I’ve made the system how it is.

    a) The Wii Remote and PS Move’s main controller

    v6llea.jpg

    11gsv46.jpg

    The only two functions of these controllers that really matter in terms of my system are:

     I) The Wii B Button and the Move T Button. Each is just a button but remember their placement, this is important when I explain the handling of “Complex Weapons” (via gun linking) later.

    II) The Wii Pointer and Move Sphere. This is crucial. These function exactly like a very accurate Light Gun, though their technology is different. They can move a cursor/reticule on screen in exactly the same way that a Mouse does, though there is a very important difference between these and a Mouse(see below). This does not use the Wii Remotes Motion sensor in any way! The PS Move’s sphere always uses motion sensing to track its position in conjunction with the camera, but it should be just as accurate as the Wii Pointer.
     
    The cursor/reticule controlled on screen by the Wii Pointer or Move Sphere does not work exactly like a Mouse‘s, which at a glance they appear to. There are many lengthier and better explanations of this on the web but the basic difference is as follows(The principal is exactly the same for the Move though I use the Wii in this example):

    You move your viewpoint in many PC games with the Mouse, by sliding it in the direction you want look. If you need to move your viewpoint more than that single slide accomplished then you pick it up and repeat that action, simple. You cannot do this with a Wii Remote, there is no(sensible) way to disable it temporarily while you reposition it for a repeat motion. When you pick up the mouse the ball is no longer in connection with the surface of your desk and it ceases to function, for a very brief but very necessary moment! (It was simpler to explain this with the old style of mouse but it is exactly the same regardless of which type you use.) The Wii Pointer and Move Sphere are always active.

    This is why the Wii never achieved much of it's expected potential in regard to FPS's. Various methods were tried as a solution, none of them were great.

    As a result I use two thumb sticks in my system(like on a regular PS3 or 360 joy pad), one to handle movement(when needed, see the examples later), and one to move the viewpoint. This leaves the reticule/cursor of the Wii pointer or Move Sphere to work just as it would on a PC screen, but without the complications discussed above, therefore fixing this problem. The only other way to fix it would be to use a button solely for the purpose of temporarily disabling the Wii Remote’s Pointer or PS Move’s Sphere while you reset their position which would not work as well, or covering the Wii Pointer/Move Sphere with a cloth which would be rather ridiculous.

    b)The Wii Nunchuk and Move Navigation controller

    feh0y8.jpg

    skumns.jpg

    This is very straight forward. You have one analogue thumb stick and two main buttons on each of these, C and Z on the Nunchuk, L1 and L2 on the Move Navigator.


    2) The Setup

    You will question some of what follows, which is good, you should. I ask that you suspend your judgement until you have seen how I utilise this setup in the examples that I provide later(especially in regard to the inclusion of foot pedals as standard).

    In the diagram below is a very rough outline for my design of the Wii gun adapter..
    Most of the adapters you can buy at the moment only have one trigger button and deny access to the two main buttons on the Nunchuk/Navigation controller, nor are they designed to link together which is necessary at times.
    This rough design allows full access to the buttons that are needed and has a flared slot for the easy linking of the guns.
    The back of the adapter(Where the slot is) needs to be weighted is such a way that it counter balances the weight of the Wii Remote/Move controller. This should mean that the overall weight of the completed gun is balanced perfectly over your hand which should help to reduce fatigue during long play sessions.

    a4qt5v.jpg

    Imagine something very similar for the Move version of the gun adapter. The Move’s linking slot, which needs to push down the T button, will be a little more complex. The T button does not protrude past the Sphere at the end, it would need a spring loaded catch that would roll over the Sphere and then push out into the T button to press it down(I will add an image sometime when I can).


    The complete setup

    nbokqt.jpg

    You know that each gun adapter has one Wii remote/Move Controller in the barrel and one Wii Nunchuk/Move Navigation Controller in the handle.
    With one completed gun in each of your hands you have the two analogue thumb sticks that I said were needed earlier. You have a Wii Pointer/Move Sphere in each hand capable of aiming anywhere on the screen with precision, neither needed(in any way) to handle the movement of the viewpoint anymore.
    The keyboard and mouse system only has one unified focal point of action, the mouse curser/reticule. This has two, one for each of your hands, complete and total independence.

    Note also that each of the pedals are separate. It would be ideal for them to slot together and apart, increasing the flexibility of the setup to fit the preference and comfort of the individual player. Though any set would do the job, as would a Wii Balance Board, or to a lesser extent a Dance Mat.

    You should with practice, and depending upon the particular requirement of the game, be able to find a comfy and relaxed playing position that will not induce fatigue any more than the use of a more traditional system.


    3) Precise Movement within a 3D space

    This principle helps to explain why I include foot pedals as standard within this system. It applies to many of the examples in the next section including: FPS’s, RTS’s, and God Sims.
    Anyone who has used Bungie’s fantastic Forge in Halo Reach will know about precise movement anywhere within a 3D space including(obviously) moving vertically up and down. It requires not only the regular use of both thumbs on each of the thumb sticks but also the regular use of both index fingers on the triggers to handle the analogue vertical movement.
    This is a control system that has never been fully explored within the battles of FPS games, because there is already too much to occupy your hands before you start trying to fire weapons, throw grenades, and reload. Interestingly a Keyboard and Mouse system can, via the Mouse Wheel. Which is what was done in the God Simulation Black and White by Lionhead, if my memory is right.
    Normally travel within the vertical plane of FPS’s is via vehicles or bouncy and imprecise rocket packs. In this you would ignore gravity and move through the air in much the same way as Superman would, hovering precisely at any point you choose.

    There are two basic types of this movement which I call SP and FP, Halo’s Forge is a mixture of the two.
    The red arrows(below) indicate the movement of your avatar, in response to your activation of the vertical controls, for each type of movement.

    SP: The vertical movement is always in relation to the floor of the 3D space:

    jq4ba1.jpg

    You can see that regardless of your avatar’s orientation/viewpoint the avatar will always move up or down in relation to the ground.
    You will find this type used in God sims and RTS’s, also(in a similar way) in old 2D games like Space Harrier and R-Type. FPS maps built around this type of movement could be very similar in appearance to the maps you already play on.

    FP: The vertical movement is always in relation to your avatars orientation:

    262s5s4.jpg

    You can see that the orientation/viewpoint of your avatar dictates what is currently up and what is currently down, not the ground.
    Space combat is very similar to this type. FPS maps built around this style of movement may be very different from those you play on today.

    2D side scrolling shoot’em’ups did not make the transition to 3D as easily as many other types of game, new 2D shooters are still very common. I can‘t help but think that some of the reasons for that are connected to the issues talked about here.
    Hopefully this will allow developers to have another look at the 2D shooter genre.
    There are other problems that a developer must resolve to achieve this properly, but the ones I’ve thought of do seem very solvable.


    4) Examples

    I will add further examples upon request, feel free to do one yourself and either send it to me or post it here . Please click on the “Spoiler” underneath the example heading to view it. If the heading is red, then I have not finished that example yet.

    I keep the use of motion controlled actions down to a minimum in all these examples, many people are not yet convinced by them. When I do use them it is in a simple and un-clumsy manor that should complement the system as a whole rather than undermine it.

    Below is an image containing all the main input names used in the examples.

    2z6f054.jpg

    For the Move‘s button names please look at the list below(I will add a proper image for the Move when I have more time):

    L-Pointer = L-Sphere
    R-Pointer = R-Sphere
    L-C = L-L1
    R-C = R-L1
    L-Z = L-L2
    R-Z = R-L2

    a) FPS and FPP(First person Perspective) games
    Spoiler:
    b) RTS and God Simulation games
    Spoiler:
    c) Space Combat/Exploration games
    Spoiler:
    d)Top Down Shooter games
    Spoiler:
    e) Puzzle games
    Spoiler:
    f) Racing games
    Spoiler:

    5) Bringing these systems to market

    I’m no expert in regard to this but the Wii sold in vast numbers, it also had one of the highest ratios of second controllers sold in relation to the number of machines sold. The Balance Board also sold well. So a lot of what’s needed is already in many Wii owners homes.
    The Wii-U, its successor, also lets you use all your existing Wii controllers on it. So even if the Wii is dead the Wii Remote and Nunchuk combo should have many more years usage ahead.
    Nintendo is also know for giving hardware away with the first title to utilise it, think Donkey Konga(free bongo controller) and Link's Crossbow training(free gun adapter). Nintendo could manufacture Wii Remotes for around £1.50, if I remember right, and that price has likely dropped. So if they did want to do this they could manufacture what is needed for a small cost per unit, bundle it with some software that showed it's potential, and still make a profit on everything they sold.
    Also think of how many people brought Guitar Hero and Rockband which, while being a lot of fun, cost more than this would and was suitable for only one type of game.

    Sony would have a bigger problem as the Move was not shipped as a standard part of the PS3 system. I do not know the sales figures for Move but I’m guessing that the total number sold is far less than the total for the Wii controllers.
    Sony do have one advantage in their business model. Sony will often sell hardware at a loss, then aim to gain back their losses via software sales. Nintendo never do this. If Sony decided to back a system similar to this then there is little doubt they could do so with ease.

    The possibility of PC emulation by setting up something similar to Valve’s Steam could help to off set the cost considerably. If it was a great success the initial cost of their investment could pale in significance when compared to the revenue brought in by this.  


    6) Future possibilities for this system

    This system allows you to use your hands in the game world in much the same way as you would in the real world, but your actions are confined to the borders of your TV screen. You cannot shoot behind you, slowing approaching foes, while accurately taking down those in front of you.
    A 3D motion tracking headset would allow this when combined with a system of this type. Full accurate motion tracking of the controllers within a 3D space is also vital for this to work. The Motion tracking of the Move and Wii controllers both have at least one problem with the way their motion tracking works. It does not mean it cannot be done, but changes would have to be made.

    Other problems would also need fixing, you could not shoot off screen to perform actions as there would be no “off screen”. Linking the two gun adapters would also be problematic, however the use of a 3D headset would open up the full potential of a system like this in many ways.


    7) PC emulation

    To emulate PC games properly you first need to have a set of drivers which enable the games to recognise this control system.
    Second a game must allow full customisation of its controls within it’s configuration options.
    You would also need another addition. That is a of coarse a keypad, needed to handle the many secondary functions of PC game’s. It is the only sensible solution, they have all to varying degree's been designed around one.
    There are various possibilities for the design of this. My personal preference is a small keypad or black and white LCD touch screen display(now very cheap to make and very versatile) that would strap onto either wrist.
    You could not lose it down the side of your sofa and you would not have to rest it on your lap. I've held a plastic gun in my hand and still found it very easy to access my opposite wrist with my index finger, give it a try if you have a toy pistol handy.


    8) Kinect’s problems

    Kinect has no means of handling player movement within a large 3D space, it is limited to the size of your room. Microsoft would have to add some way of handling this, the easiest and most compact way being via the use of two thumb sticks.
    Kinect may also, from my experience of it, lack both the precision and response time necessary for FPS's and other types of game. There is a definite noticeable lag between the player's action and the representation of that action on screen.
    The final nail in it’s coffin could be the fact that new Smart TV’s are incorporating similar technology as standard. People are not going to want to find room for, and pay for, two things that do exactly the same job. The Move is safe in this regard as the camera is only one small part of the system, Sony could offer packages without the camera with little overall loss.


    9) Other concepts from the original document

    Hear is a brief list, in no particular order, of anything from my original document that
    I have still not discussed. If any of this interests you just ask and I will provide further details.

    a) Accurate tracking of a Wii motion controller within a 3D space. Nintendo added a gyroscope to try and improve this some time later. My theory, which may be wrong, used additional accelerometers.
    b) Wii Sword play. Why this did not work how everyone hoped it would and a couple of ideas that might help improve things a little.
    c) Improved radar for easier tracking of objects within a 3D space, Bungie nearly did this in Halo Reach.


    The End

    If any information is incorrect or if you can see any problems that I have missed then please let me know. Your views and feedback on any part of this are very welcome, please try and be nice even if you think it's the biggest load of **** you have ever read.
    If you own the rights to any image that I have used in this document and wish them removed then I will do so without hesitation upon request.
    I hope you like at least some of my ideas, many thanks for taking the time to read this!

    All the best
    Mike(UK)
    XBL : Xorse
  • WTAF.
    I'm still great and you still love it.
  • Facewon wrote:
    WTAF.

    This was on your watch!
  • metagonzo
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    Might have the stickman with dual controllers/pedals as my avatar. Hmm...
    XBL, iOS, Steam: metagonzo
  • Bollockoff
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    Do I read the whole thing before going to bed.

    Stickman has some weird "I am your god now. Prostrate thouself." tribal worship vibe going on in that image.
  • J1m1
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    I agree with all of the above except the 3rd bit.  The 3rd bit makes me think of of cheese and I can't think of cheese due to the mouse I have stapled to my armpit.
    Live/Steam - Beelzespud
  • beano
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    all the way home.

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    Lacks some qualities expected in a framework design. Needs evidence from a narrow field with citations. Well written. Contribution is not ground breaking. Accepted.
    "Better than a tech demo. But mostly a tech demo for now. Exactly what we expected, crashes less and less. No multiplayer."
    - BnB NMS review, PS4, PC
  • Escape
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    The Wii should've had a right analogue stick to override the pointer as-and-when. This would've allowed you to turn quickly with the right analogue - disabling your remote when active, while retaining the improved accuracy of the remote when not in use. It would've also allowed your reticle to remain fixed, rather than wavy-davying.

    I said stuff like that in 2005's Year of Maroon. Our Kris Marshall remembers.

    Tomy. (Or is it TOMY? If they can't decide, how the badger can I.)
  • regmcfly
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    I read it all with interest until stockman god where I did one of those gif-serious-face-to-smile.
  • Escape
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    That's you, that is.
  • Escape
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    Love how the hands are the best-drawn bits.
  • Paul the sparky
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    metagonzo wrote:
    Might have the stickman with dual controllers/pedals as my avatar. Hmm...
    First thing that popped into my mind when I saw it. I'm surprised that no one has it yet.
  • Escape
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    The mark of Moss.

    I mean, not even I'm this thoroughly geeky. Something to aspire to, I s'pose.
  • metagonzo
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    metagonzo wrote:
    Might have the stickman with dual controllers/pedals as my avatar. Hmm...
    First thing that popped into my mind when I saw it. I'm surprised that no one has it yet.

    And there it is.
    XBL, iOS, Steam: metagonzo
  • Matthew?
    "Let me tell you, when yung Rouj had his Senna and Mansell Scalextric, Frank was the goddamn Professor X of F1."
  • Two foot pedals and two hand controllers seems a bit like overkill. Can't imagine many people could be bothered with all that.

    needs to be simple

    g.man
    Come with g if you want to live...
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    Drumkit simulator = niche market
  • Escape
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    Roujin wrote:
    Matthew?

    Kelly? He was another wrong 'un.

    Perhaps he was behind the curtain with Jim and the boys. I think that's what we're missing here: retractable curtains for Stockman's Keeler reveal.

    Meanwhile, the pedals put me in mind of limp-wristed dentistry. He'd have liked Gibraltar.
  • dynamiteReady
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    Escape wrote:
    I think that's what we're missing here: retractable curtains...

    The Wii U will take care of that... Did you not see the E3 preview vids? :}
    "I didn't get it. BUUUUUUUUUUUT, you fucking do your thing." - Roujin
    Ninty Code: SW-7904-0771-0996
  • Hi all

    In response to the first few comments of horror. I did make it clear I was going to do this in my application to become a member. Sorry all the same.

    Metagonzo, glad you like the stickman!
    Thanks beano, any info on Framework Designs would be nice, I know nothing.
    Escape. I agree, this was the only solution I could think of with what we were given. Limp-wrested destiny, lol.

    Cheers
    XBL : Xorse
  • All seems a bit over the top to me, but hey, can't fault your enthusiasm mate.

    good luck

    g.man
    Come with g if you want to live...
  • FranticPea
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    I personally can't wait until I have time to read this, it looks brilliantly bonkers.
  • Yossarian
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    Your application to become a member of what? This forum? No-one told me we had to submit essays as part of the application process.

    Anyway, tl;dr, but welcome to the forum all the same.
  • Mike. Good idea. Though this would need the user to be sitting on a dining chair and not a couch. Have you considered long term use? I can't see it being comfortable after extended periods of use.
    You do win an award for the most obscure first post ever.
    welcome
    Sometimes here. Sometimes Lurk. Occasionally writes a bad opinion then deletes it before posting..
  • Can this be combined with a sex swing, a series of ropes and pulleys, hydraulics and the player 2 pad to become the ultimate gaming experience?
  • Well, that was a much better response than I was expecting.

    I still haven't had time to read it.
  • Escape, I’m not normally this geeky, but a couple of months of being unemployed and the expanse of time that leaves to fill…

    Thanks g.man. You may be right. I still can’t think of a better solution than the pedal’s in terms of the control they give, any suggestions are welcome
    .
    FranticPea, my sanity went down the sh**er a long time ago!

    Yossarian, I had to say why I wanted to become a member when I applied.

    Revelthedog, for the most part I hoped a player could find a comfortable way to rest their arms. The pedal situation is no different than it would be when used for a racing game. A gaming chair perhaps, not a fan myself…
    When can I collect my award!

    Liveinadive, if that’s your thing! By all means go for it!
    XBL : Xorse
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