Liveinadive wrote:

Youve never done 32 in a 30 accidently, never clipped into another lane on a roundabout, never got slightly closer to someone than the minimum stopping distance?

If the answer is yes you arent driving naturally and are still prob dangerous.

Rubbish. I always stay in my lane, stay within the speed limit and keep a safe distance from vehicles in front wherever possible (e.g. when people cut in, I drop back).
What's so difficult? It's just sensible, alert driving.

I'm not ganging up on you Igor but seriously you are the only person in the world that I have ever heard off that has never committed a traffic violation, other than the previous driving without due care that you didn't caught for.

Honestly, you believing that you have never broken a traffic law is as ridiculous as me believing that speed isn't the cause of accidents!

Moto70 wrote:

@djchump: Nope, nothing, not a fine, not a point, zilch. I couldn't believe it when I got the letter from the court. He had to attend a half day driver awareness course at his own expense so that was sort of a fine but if you're looking at black and white he was not fined.

 
Wow - that really is quite shocking, given that 2 people have ended up on his car and one ended up through his windscreen with broken bones!
Fucking outrageous that they'd get no points on the license - dangerous idiot keeps doing things like that and getting away with it (i.e. doesn't get taken off the road by revoking license) then someone's going to end up dead, not just badly hurt as was the case in your accident

Moto70 wrote:

I do realise that speed is the main factor in the devastation caused when an accident does happen but people have to realise that more often than not it isn't the cause of the accident. In my accident it played no part at all other than the injuries it inflicted, if it had been in a 60mph limit then there is a high chance that I could have been killed but the fact still lies in that the accident was caused by the driver. If a driver loses control because he was going to fast I'd argue that the speed wasn't the cause of the accident but it instead lies with the driver's own recklessness. It's a grey area I know and people will point to motorway pile-ups as a valid indicator that they are right whereas I would point to the fact that again people are the ones fucking up, they can fuck up in a car park just as easily they can fuck-up at speed.

Of course - it's the mistakes or inattention that causes the accident, but like you say, it's just that at higher speed, the devastation is much greater if/when there is an accident. 
Excessive speed will also amplify any small errors - under poor road conditions or even normal conditions.

Problem is, no matter how "good" a driver is, or thinks they are, they can never account for every little thing, and they can still make mistakes - we're all human.
In fact, my inclination is that whenever I hear someone say "I'm a good driver", it instinctively makes me wary of their driving as it makes them seem arrogant and presumptuous - in a similar manner that I'm wary of people driving expensive Audis, Mercs, Jags and Land/Range Rovers (more often that not young to middle-aged males) on the A-roads and motorway, because in my experience they often drive somewhat recklessly and fast because "I have a performance car, so it's safe for me to drive at this speed or this close behind you, because my brakes are great and I'm a good driver".  
If I'm cut up from the wrong lane of a roundabout, tailgated on the motorway or the fucker doesn't bother indicating, more often than not it's an Audi or Jag.

Moto70 wrote:

... Yes speed was a factor but the fault still lies with the fact hat a driver turned to abruptly and paid the price. ...

Of course - it's just that at higher speeds the risks are much greater.

Tempy wrote:

Maybe he has adhered to the law to the best of his knowledge? My stepdad failed the test to be a driving instructor because he lost a silly amount of points for parking up at a bus stop at the end of his test. Of course, the paint had eroded from the road and the sign was covered by an overgrown tree, but the instructor knew the area and was required to mark him down. He didn't bother to try again because it involved hours more paperwork, a brand new lesson plan and a lot of other stuff he just couldn't be bothered to do, and he'd received an interview for a job as a store manager anyway. But yeah, i'm sure igor could attempt to follow the law to the 100%, but poor road markings and other people can make it impossible to do so, surely?

Poor road markings will normally get you off tickets or anything like that if you are bolshy enough to take it to court - plenty of people have got off parking tickets because the double-yellows were worn away, roadworks had caused a big enough break in the double-yellows that you can park a car on it or the ends of the doubles weren't terminated correctly, so they didn't count as legally valid.

Passing your test is different cos they can fail you for any old shit.

djchump wrote:

Tempy wrote:

Maybe he has adhered to the law to the best of his knowledge? My stepdad failed the test to be a driving instructor because he lost a silly amount of points for parking up at a bus stop at the end of his test. Of course, the paint had eroded from the road and the sign was covered by an overgrown tree, but the instructor knew the area and was required to mark him down. He didn't bother to try again because it involved hours more paperwork, a brand new lesson plan and a lot of other stuff he just couldn't be bothered to do, and he'd received an interview for a job as a store manager anyway. But yeah, i'm sure igor could attempt to follow the law to the 100%, but poor road markings and other people can make it impossible to do so, surely?

Poor road markings will normally get you off tickets or anything like that if you are bolshy enough to take it to court - plenty of people have got off parking tickets because the double-yellows were worn away, roadworks had caused a big enough break in the double-yellows that you can park a car on it or the ends of the doubles weren't terminated correctly, so they didn't count as legally valid.

Passing your test is different cos they can fail you for any old shit.

Driving Instructor stuff doubly so.

Btw, there's a difference between driving 100% perfectly and driving in an entirely law-abiding manner. To suggest otherwise is silly.

igorgetmeabrain wrote:

Ffs. Ok, I was in inside lane going at 70 with clear lane ahead of me when, about 2/3 mile from my junction I came across a car sitting in middle lane going about 55-60. ...

I just undercut people like that.
Not at mad-speed mind - around 70. Just roll up on the inside and when I'm getting near, scope em out to see if they've seen me or are likely to move across at any point. Normally they're so lazily content to sit in the middle-lane that they don't even think of moving back so you can cruise past them on the inside.

I know I'm not supposed to and it's dangerous, but I don't see why I should move across 2 lanes of traffic then back again, holding up the fast lane in the process (as I don't tend to drive at the kinds of speeds required for the fast lane) just because the middle lane is lazy.

Is the hard shoulder like the ones in F Zero and you die if you stay on it

DJ CHUMP IS....

Or just sitting and waiting for the slip.

Cos I commute on the M42 and M40 every day, I tend to get in lane early and just trolley on down to the off - no stress, no fuss. Sit behind a lorry in the slow lane and just chill for a minute while waiting for the slip. Just ain't worth it trying to overtake everything to cut in late and maybe gain a couple of car lengths by the time you've hit the lights at the roundabout.

Um, it definately is. You have a cery skewed view of driving igor, the highway code is extremely out dated and cannot possibley account for all situations.

By staying in lane and undertaking the only danger would have been the car in the middle lane pulling in on you. By changing lanes all sorts of other variables have to be taken into account, and at the end of it you still end up parrallel to a car that may pull out into you.

OK

With regard to the earlier post regarding markings I tried to get off one of my speeding offences, 38mph in a 30mph, from a mobile camera. I took a picture of the 30mph sign obscured by the hedge and thought would be enough so pleaded not guilty. It went to court and the judge pointed out that I couldn't plead not guilty because I was guilty and all I could do was plead mitigating circumstances so I did that. The judge then pointed out that my 'sign obscured' excuse wasn't mitigating as the road was the one that led to my house so I knew what the speed was. £145 and 4 points that particular gamble cost me...

I'm sorry Igor but this is going to same like a vendetta but I assure you it's not and I may well be wrong but doesn't the law say that you are permitted to pass on the left when that lane is moving quicker? I'd say this could pretty much get you off any undertaking charges if you're not driving like a dick...

EDIT: Cheers Mod, I knew I'd heard that.

Oh dear Igor, this hole's getting deeper!

...which it always does!

I assume that you have reached this opinion from experience coupled with awareness so you can have a tick in good driver box.

I was involved in an 'incident' that involved somebody aggressively undertaking and then cutting people up during some slow moving traffic near Scotch Corner about 10 years ago. I managed to box him in behind a lorry and he was like fuck, so much so that while I was laughing at him he gave it the wanker shake. This got my goat up so I immediately dropped in behind him and matched his moves, he turned off the road we were on and the one we joined was empty, he tried to shake me off but I overtook him and then stood on the brakes just as he'd made others do 5 mins previously. I got out of my van and went to his car, he also got out so I punched him square in the face, he decided that his best option now would be to get back in his car. I pointed out that he was a cunt who'd just upset at least 30 other drivers but he picked the wrong one to gesticulate to.

I realise that this may not be to everybody's taste but we all roll differently...