LivDiv wrote:

superflyninja wrote:

Yup, I concur.
However,on reflection, clone palps was a terrible idea.

I maintain Johnson left them with little choice.
The movie needed a big bad to lure Kylo. It was either Palps, retcon Snoke's death or establish a new big bad within a movie that already had a lot of work to do.
Palps was the best of a bad choice, if nothing else at least Palps hamming it up is amusing.

Or just make ren the big bad. He’d burnt through his dad then his sith dad. Not really sure he needed a third dad.

The casting was brilliant.

Fisher was nobody's damsell in distress.

Ford crashed a WW2 plane into a golf course decades later. Which is the most Han Solo move going. His roguish charm defined his career.

Hamill has done some brilliant roles, mainly through voice acting but at the time his inexperience worked for Luke.

I keep saying it but the Mando documentary series is well worth watching as well.

Please also Donald Duck and the Legend of the Three Caballeros so I get a season two, thankx.

LivDiv wrote:

superflyninja wrote:

Yup, I concur.
However,on reflection, clone palps was a terrible idea.

I maintain Johnson left them with little choice.
The movie needed a big bad to lure Kylo. It was either Palps, retcon Snoke's death or establish a new big bad within a movie that already had a lot of work to do.
Palps was the best of a bad choice, if nothing else at least Palps hamming it up is amusing.

Oh completely, I 100% agree about Johnson and TLJ. He backed the 3rd movie into a corner. Id rather Retcon Snoke back in and explain his origins or have Snoke's true master step out from the shadows. But yeah at least Palps had the ham going for him for sure!

davyK wrote:

superflyninja wrote:

Yup, I concur. However,on reflection, clone palps was a terrible idea.

That's an understatement to say the least. It only unravelled the entire story of Star Wars.

Clone Palps was worse than Dead Snoke.

superflyninja wrote:

LivDiv wrote:

superflyninja wrote:

Yup, I concur. However,on reflection, clone palps was a terrible idea.

I maintain Johnson left them with little choice. The movie needed a big bad to lure Kylo. It was either Palps, retcon Snoke's death or establish a new big bad within a movie that already had a lot of work to do. Palps was the best of a bad choice, if nothing else at least Palps hamming it up is amusing.

Oh completely, I 100% agree about Johnson and TLJ. He backed the 3rd movie into a corner. Id rather Retcon Snoke back in and explain his origins or have Snoke's true master step out from the shadows. But yeah at least Palps had the ham going for him for sure!

I know we've debated this before but that is just not a fair complaint. Why does Kylo need a lure?  Thats what you guys want and fine, wont argue that. But its not like the only option on the table was to bring back a bad guy who had not appeared in 2 out of a 3 film trilogy. Last Jedi left me with the impression that Kylo was not looking to be the Vadar to a Emperor but to be the Emperor himself and was looking at Rey to maybe become his Vadar. 

And if you insist on bringing back the older Sith guy to lure Kylo Ren... why not resurrect Snoke FFS? He is in the first 2 movies! Palps isnt! It could have been him that never dies. Then Rise of Skywalker could have been about Kylo turning to Good against an ever living Snoke (might also explain how Snoke was able to build the First Order)

That JJ didnt want that and insisted on having an old fart be the big bad as opposed to the guy who the first 2 movies had built up is on him.

LivDiv wrote:

The answer is probably Disney. I would put money on Snoke not testing well. Opportunity to bring back someone marketable is too saucy to ignore.

Yeah maybe, but my point stands that from a story point of view it makes much more sense than Palpatine, it doesn't piss on Vadars sacrifice and it gives Kylo a bad guy to rail against that has been there from the start. And works fine with the Last Jedi. So Johnson didnt dead end it after all. 


There you go, just saved Star Wars.

LivDiv wrote:

There's no saving Star Wars

That may be true.

Am I the only one that wanted Rey to embrace her palatine ancestry and turn evil?

Doesn’t Ren have exactly the same palatine ancestry?

(Isn’t it implied he magic sexes Darth Vader into Smee Sky Walker).

RedDave2 wrote:

davyK wrote:

superflyninja wrote:

Yup, I concur. However,on reflection, clone palps was a terrible idea.

That's an understatement to say the least. It only unravelled the entire story of Star Wars.

Clone Palps was worse than Dead Snoke.

superflyninja wrote:

LivDiv wrote:

superflyninja wrote:

Yup, I concur. However,on reflection, clone palps was a terrible idea.

I maintain Johnson left them with little choice. The movie needed a big bad to lure Kylo. It was either Palps, retcon Snoke's death or establish a new big bad within a movie that already had a lot of work to do. Palps was the best of a bad choice, if nothing else at least Palps hamming it up is amusing.

Oh completely, I 100% agree about Johnson and TLJ. He backed the 3rd movie into a corner. Id rather Retcon Snoke back in and explain his origins or have Snoke's true master step out from the shadows. But yeah at least Palps had the ham going for him for sure!

I know we've debated this before but that is just not a fair complaint. Why does Kylo need a lure?  Thats what you guys want and fine, wont argue that. But its not like the only option on the table was to bring back a bad guy who had not appeared in 2 out of a 3 film trilogy. Last Jedi left me with the impression that Kylo was not looking to be the Vadar to a Emperor but to be the Emperor himself and was looking at Rey to maybe become his Vadar.  And if you insist on bringing back the older Sith guy to lure Kylo Ren... why not resurrect Snoke FFS? He is in the first 2 movies! Palps isnt! It could have been him that never dies. Then Rise of Skywalker could have been about Kylo turning to Good against an ever living Snoke (might also explain how Snoke was able to build the First Order) That JJ didnt want that and insisted on having an old fart be the big bad as opposed to the guy who the first 2 movies had built up is on him.

I dont think they needed a lure. But thats what Im saying it would have been better to bring back Snoke than resurrect Palps.

Know what would have worked? Having Snoke be Darth Plagueis. You could then have resurrected him in the 3rd movie whilst not breaking cannon. Big bad there all along...blah blah.

it may not have been a cul-de-sac but it hardly left them with an abundance of viable options. you were basically left with 'bring someone back from the dead' or 'bring in a new bad guy you never heard of before' or 'kylo is the big bad guy now and he faces off against rey again'.

I'm sure JJ could have made part 3 a spectacular sloppy mess regardless, but it was TLJ that fucked the story up to the point of 'who gives a fuck anymore do whatever, you can't make things any worse'. Not that 'Rise' didn't make a good attempt to do so.

Given how much of TLJ that JJ did retcon or flipoff, they really should have just went back to TLJ and ended it at the point after Rey and Kylo fight and he offers her his hand...pretend the rest of the film didn't happen and you could then maybe do something more interesting with the 3rd one.

RamSteelwood wrote:

it may not have been a cul-de-sac but it hardly left them with an abundance of viable options. you were basically left with 'bring someone back from the dead' or 'bring in a new bad guy you never heard of before' or 'kylo is the big bad guy now and he faces off against rey again'. I'm sure JJ could have made part 3 a spectacular sloppy mess regardless, but it was TLJ that fucked the story up to the point of 'who gives a fuck anymore do whatever, you can't make things any worse'. Not that 'Rise' didn't make a good attempt to do so.

But what were you hoping for? Its not like empire leaves threads here there and everywhere. There is :

Luke and Vadar to face off again (although now they deal with the daddy thing)
Save Han
and... er... thats it?

In Jedi, the emperor appears at least and has lightning blasts but he wasnt built up in any major way other than the odd glimpse. The rebuilt Death Star is out of the blue. Hans rescue is up there with Last Jedis chase for something happen just for the sake of plot and is dealth with as a set-up adventure and has no real bearing on things. No-one minds Lando betrayed them in empire - sure he makes amends but no-one really takes him to task (and Solo should at least when rescued)

Again, my feeling is Last Jedi didnt follow the threads some people wanted and thats fine as a reason not to like it. But the idea that you couldnt write a story after that film is just silly

g.man wrote:

They should have made it a musical.