Legal question - The Bear and Badger

cockbeard

Hey guys, I've a strange situation and obviously I think I'm in the right. Just wondered what the hive mind here might think

Bought a second hand handset Dec 2011 from CEX, not reported stolen, been using it happily until yesterday. Yesterday the payments department at three blacklisted the handset. It has not been reported lost or stolen. So far three have not explicitly asserted any right of ownership over the phone. I've checked their t and cs, no where does it state the handset remains their property until end of contract, in fact it states that from the moment of delivery the handset is the responsibility of the purchaser. Do they have any right to blacklist the handset, their quarrel is with original purchaser

CEX for their part have offered exchange up to current value of handset, this is below my expectation as according to sale of goods I'm entitled to full refund as they had no title to the goods.

I'm tempted to simply buy a handset and chase three, do we think I can also screw three for cost of replacing the handset? If three successfully assert ownership of the handset, then I can definitely get fill refund from CEX for original handset however am out of pocket in short term as I buy a replacement now before refund

WorKid

Sounds tricky.

mistercrayon

Pretty sure when I lost my phone and called for a replacement on insurance the company (orange) wanted the lost phone back after it was blocked if I happened to find it. If I were to take a guess the guy reported it lost got a new phone and they blocked the phone.

cockbeard

Yeah but three have told me that the handset was blacklisted for nonpayment by previous owner

I see this as an abuse of a system created to prevent theft of handsets. They also stated that even if I prove my ownership of the handset (provide purchase receipt) they will not lift the bar

The phone is not marked as stolen but only blacklisted, this is where I wonder if I'm on a sticky wicket or not. Does anybody have the right to blacklist a phone that they do not own?

M0stly harm13ss

I've seen this issue reported online. Basically, the handset owner sells it to CEX, then, as they are still registered as the owner with the network operator, at some point in the future reports it as stolen so they can claim the handset costs back on insurance.

You'll need the receipt from CEX unfortunately to prove that you bought the phone legally and to get them to unlock it.

cockbeard

This is not that blag, else it would have been done 11 months ago, the bar was placed by three for non-payment, the phone is not reported stolen

This is why I'm a) fuming, b) a little stuck and c) hoping I can rape three

M0stly harm13ss

Sorry man, saw your update...

A quick google shows that the phoneÂ companiesÂ are very reluctant to unblock phones, with the process taking a couple of weeks at least, and that'sÂ afterÂ jumping through the legal proof of ownership hoops they have in place.

I would try chasing CEX for this? It seems that it's a pretty substantial risk that buying a second hand handset from them could result in this sort of issue down the line, and they should make this clear up front.

cockbeard

Yeah and though I could chase CEX, I'm still pretty mad at three for blocking it in first place. Being the kind of bloke who could start a fight in a stasis booth, I really wanna chase three even if it costs me a little in short term, I feel certain I have a case against them

I agree that CEX should be aware of this blag but they themselves bought the phone in good faith, if it's reported stolen that's a fraud by the previous owner

monkey

If the phone hasn't been paid for, then hasn't it been stolen from Three? They only provide the phone on the condition of payment over a contract or whatever.Â

The alternative is to allow people to just trade their phones on the network and three lose the cost of the phone all the time.

[Deleted User]

I tried chasing 3 once. I was on a contract with them, the phone provided broke within a month so I wanted a replacement. I was adamant I didn't want to send it for repair as it took 3 weeks each time and they wouldn't provide a loan phone.

I sent it once and it came back identical, they didn't even touch the thing, it was wrapped in the wrapping I sent it in.
They told me it had to be sent another 2 times for repair before a replacement would be provided. So that would be 9 weeks without a phone and they wouldn't give me any money back off my contract either.

I spent a fair few hours talking to an Indian call centre as they went through their flow chart of questions each time. I never got anywhere, I just put up with the phone for 6 months and eventually just got a new contract and paid both.

There was literally no way round it.

monkey

I'd chase CEX here for a full refund. They've sold you a phone you can't use.

GooberTheHat

as I see it it is the fault of cex, not 3. Cex have sold you a phone that they did not have legal ownership of so it is their fuck up, not yours or three's.

Mod74

For the sake of getting it settled (and getting a working phone again) I'd deal with CEX. At least can talk to someone in person.

I wouldn't take "current value" if that meant I'd have to dig into my own pocket to buy a new identical handset. Push for an exchange on the same model, or whatever they're currently charging (not buying) for that model as a discount against a different one.

I guess you have to balance up the legal part with how far CEX customer services will bend and the ball ache involved in dealing with Three.

cockbeard

Three customer services are ridiculous, and I'm pretty sure CEX will bend. I can get an identical handset from CEX at zero effort, and if they do offer the full refund of purchase price I'll likley take it, but really want to push my luck with three as they've pissed me off

IMO they have committed a tort. I was hoping that they would attempt to claim to own the handset, in which case we have a simple dispute of ownership, easily settled by the fact their ts and cs don't anywhere state they own the phone. But this tort thing seems like an angle to investigate

As far as I can see, they transferred ownership to the original purchaser, who then sold to CEX then to me. Although the payment was never forthcoming the phone was not bought on a HP deal, ownership was transferred on delivery of the item

cockbeard

Are 3 claiming title by blocking it? Or is it only renounced by theft

cockbeard

Here's hoping for thirty grand on the Euros tonight, as I would love to fuck them over for this

I do the same thing, buy a phone then use my ridiculously good sim only deal, which ironically is with three, would have been double pleased at hammering them over the handset issue, and then continuing to pay them Â£12 for average 4-5 Gb data a month

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