Society's Ills - A study in the perceived inequalities between the "haves" and the "have nots"
  • Yossarian
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    trippy wrote:
    A man with too much time on his hands writes a long and boring article that he hopes will speak to the masses, coin a phrase and spread like wildfire.

    FWIW, Brooks is not the first I've seen sharing this, it was going around at work a week or two back, so it may have worked.
  • Fuck reading all that.
  • Yeah that could do with a merciless editing.
  • In other news, from the Financial Times

    Water privatisation looks little more than an organised rip-off 
    Bills are rising to fund massive shareholder payouts

    Thames Water (or rather its customers) had obligingly paid off £2bn of the £2.8bn of debt that the Australian investment bank Macquarie took on when it acquired the company in 2006, despite conditions set by the regulator that the utility’s finances would be ringfenced from the acquirer. The financing cost of this corporate transaction — from which water users derived no conceivable benefit — was simply lobbed on to their bills.


    Over the past decade, the nine main English water companies have made £18.8bn of post-tax profits in aggregate, according to a study by Greenwich University. Of this, £18.1bn has been paid out as dividends. Consequently, almost all capital expenditure has been financed by adding to the companies’ debt piles. Collectively these now stand at a towering £42bn.

    Reminder, this was written in the FT
    As things stand, water privatisation looks little more than an organised rip-off. Quite why this natural monopoly should not operate through not-for-profit, public interest companies is ever less clear.

    Whole article (the link is paywalled)
    Spoiler:


    Paywalled link
  • monkey wrote:
    not-for-profit, public interest companies
    Re some previous discussion somewhere about the left not getting its marketing together, this sounds way better than 're-nationalisation', while broadly having the same outcome. It doesn't have the negative, 1970s, backwards-looking connotations. It's also harder to oppose - ie why would anyone be against something in the public interest?
  • Because someone will say we don't have the money for it.
  • Money for what? Govt won't pay for a private, not for profit business. 

    We don't have the money not to do it.
  • I scrolled through the article and thought that's 30 pages to introduce a buzzword.
    Fuck if I'm reading that.
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  • GooberTheHat
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    monkey wrote:
    Money for what? Govt won't pay for a private, not for profit business. 

    We don't have the money not to do it.

    The government has no place putting the rights and welfare of its citizens before private corporations ability to generate profit.
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    hunk wrote:
    I scrolled through the article and thought that's 30 pages to introduce a buzzword. Fuck if I'm reading that.

    In the elaborate lexicon of fightmen, we use upper-mid. Woulda saved a lot of time.
  • Escape
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    Bourgeois Tempy

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-41446746/universal-credit-i-don-t-even-have-4p-to-my-name

    The guy's absolutely right about lying to landlords — you almost always have to. It doesn't just hurt, it reinforces a them-against-us outlook. The kicker's that they're invariably nice to you until you mention it.
  • Yossarian
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    Comment's been deleted.
  • Yossarian
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    How were you able to find that? Did it appear for you from the link?

    Edit: don't worry, it appears for me in Chrome, but not Safari for some reason. Weird.
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    It's what we've been saying, but from ‘the outside’. This horrible I-work-so-they-should myopia that allows corps to function at full power.
  • Place I am at seems to have a subscription to Financial Times so -

    Renters pay £54bn to private landlords in buy-to-let boom

    Figure more than double the mortgage interest paid by homeowners, study shows

    The total amount of rent paid to private landlords in Britain is now more than double the amount of mortgage interest paid to banks by homeowners, as rising house prices push more people into the rental sector.

    Renters paid about £54bn to buy-to-let investors across the country over the 12 months to the end of June, as the number of people renting property across the country rises and rents soar, according to new figures published on Monday by the estate agency group Savills.

    At the same time, mortgaged homeowners have been able to take advantage of a prolonged period of low interest rates and cheap loans.

    The interest paid by owner-occupier borrowers to banks has been falling over five years, and currently stands at £26.5bn, down by a total of £6.4bn from 2012, according to Savills. Over the same five-year period, the amount paid to landlords has risen by £14bn, while the number of homes in the private rented sector has grown by just over a fifth.

    Lucian Cook, head of residential research at Savills, said that despite low interest rates, it has become increasing difficult for people to save for a deposit as wage growth slows and house prices rise.

    “Fewer people have been able to benefit from the low mortgage rates, and we know that people are renting longer into later stages of life,” said Mr Cook.

    In London, the total amount of rent paid is about four times the amount paid in interest to banks by owner-occupiers, according to Savills. The total amount of rent paid collectively in London was around £20bn in the 12 months to the end of June, and has risen by 42 per cent over five years.

    Younger people are responsible for about half of Britain’s total rent bill, paying around £24bn to landlords over the past year.

    The average share of income that Britain’s families spend on housing has trebled over the past 50 years, with young people dealing with longer commutes and smaller, less secure rented accommodation than their parents, according to the Resolution Foundation think-tank.

    Last week, Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn raised the prospect of tighter rent controls as he set out plans to take on landlords in his speech to the party’s annual conference in Brighton. In comments that alarmed landlords, Mr Corbyn said the UK should adopt rent controls and impose a tax on undeveloped land held by developers.



    Don't like to bulk quote articles but it'll just paywall if I use the link.
  • Yossarian
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    Burn BTL landlords.
  • My first step would be to remove letting agents.
    It is money for nothing and I have plenty of anecdotal evidence of them not bothering to report issues to landlords.
    They also enforce these stupid deposits.

    If people are to profit off rental they should at least do the work and actually be in contact with the property and tenant.
  • cockbeard
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    Scrap Housing Benefit
    "I spent years thinking Yorke was legit Downs-ish disabled and could only achieve lucidity through song" - Mr B
  • Yossarian
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    Oddly enough, I was reading an article about an experiment comparing giving aid as cash and giving aid in kind (food etc) to villages that were in need and were cut off enough to essentially have a monopoly in food production.

    Giving aid in cash didn’t push up prices a noticeable amount. Giving aid in kind brought prices down.

    I wish I could remember where I saw the article, it seemed so very relevant to this debate.
  • dynamiteReady
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    Thought provoking story this:
    http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41307372
    "I didn't get it. BUUUUUUUUUUUT, you fucking do your thing." - Roujin
    Ninty Code: SW-7904-0771-0996
  • Escape
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    Tempy wrote:
    In London, the total amount of rent paid is about four times the amount paid in interest to banks by owner-occupiers, according to Savills.

    Younger people are responsible for about half of Britain’s total rent bill, paying around £24bn to landlords over the past year.

    The rent trap, and I don't know about London, but it all kicked off around here with the property-porn boom on telly. 2001/2, to date it.

    cockbeard wrote:
    Scrap Housing Benefit

    What's your transitory solution for those of us who'd be homeless without it? Without LHA I'd go from affording £400 pm to affording £100.

    As I've said before, the BtL feeders are the ones who can afford twice what I can (and more), many of whom don't claim LHA. I don't see LHA comprising much of the backbone of the problem, and if you take it away then you screw the most vulnerable. Prohibitive taxes on portfolios and rent caps are more my idea of a plan.
  • The issue is the supply and demand problems with property haven't been considered by the Tories and were, at best, neglected under New Labour.

    There isn't another investment out there that would return like that. Especially when company pensions and savings got pissed up the wall.

    It isn't right to profit off others basic needs but that is the scenario that has been created. I won't justify neglectful landlords or those that push rents, definitely not those that use agents. However property is the best long term investment.
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    Aye, but you're living in yours.
  • The banks push up rental as well.
    Rental mortgages are higher rate, insurance goes through the roof.
    You are looking at an extra 20%- 50% on those payments because it is a rental.
    No-one is going to do it for a monthly loss.

    Like I have said many times. The biggest cunts in this racket are letting agents and the government.

    The government especially, they could have fixed this decades ago but they are in on it.

    Don't worry though, May has committed to building 5 houses for every 100 needed.
    All the foreigners will fuck off when we are destitute as well.
  • Escape wrote:
    cockbeard wrote:
    Scrap Housing Benefit
    What's your transitory solution for those of us who'd be homeless without it? Without LHA I'd go from affording £400 pm to affording £100. As I've said before, the BtL feeders are the ones who can afford twice what I can (and more), many of whom don't claim LHA. I don't see LHA comprising much of the backbone of the problem, and if you take it away then you screw the most vulnerable. Prohibitive taxes on portfolios and rent caps are more my idea of a plan.

    His argument is that housing benefit creates a minimum rent.I don't really buy it myself.
  • Direct punitive measures will only make rentals more difficult to find. Maybe nice for people already in a good flat, bad for the next generation.

    The obvious, but unpopular answer is to build lots of council housing where the demand is highest. Lots and lots of multi-storey blocks well connected to public transport networks where they exist and with secure car parking where they don't. You need to keep people with kids out of them as well.

    The problem goes all the way back to Thatcher and right to buy, the amazing thing is the number of people who've still not twigged that giving away council houses causes problems.
  • His argument is that housing benefit creates a minimum rent.I don't really buy it myself.

    Not sure I buy that either. Look at the ridiculous rental cost on all these new-build student residences – there’s no housing benefit involved there.

    I_R wrote:
    The problem goes all the way back to Thatcher and right to buy, the amazing thing is the number of people who've still not twigged that giving away council houses causes problems.

    Yep, I do buy that.

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