Society's Ills - A study in the perceived inequalities between the "haves" and the "have nots"
  • Yossarian
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    mk64 wrote:
    I fully see that some people have it easier than others but to blame society and your situation for not doing what you want (again within reason) is a cop out. Just yesterday I met an old friend from 15 years ago. Bumped into him on the platform in Wimbledon and he's a train conductor. He earns more than a lot of people we hung around with and lives his job cause he just reads books all day. How did he do it? Incredible focus brought on from having kids. Before that he freely admits he had no drive. He has no gcses either. Good on him

    Anecdote isn't evidence, and the evidence (which I linked to earlier) is that we have the lowest social mobility in the developed world and the majority of people do not change their social class within their lifetimes. People who are born rich will more than likely die rich. Do you believe that this is simply because people who are born rich in the UK want to remain rich more than those who are born poor want to change their situation?
  • There are also more millionaires than ever yoss. More people are becoming rich.

    Dante. Do I really have to explain?

    JonB. I disagree totally. Feel free to give me an example. Yours if its the case.
    Currently playing; Mario Maker and Clash Royale
  • I have no anecdotal evidence of millionaires. I would like to meet one and ask them what their life is like.
  • mk64 wrote:
    Dante. Do I really have to explain?

    Yes.
  • Dark Soldier
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    If I ever become a millionaire (lol) you're all getting a couple of grand each, for being you.
    Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious, I romance a mam like oedipus
  • FANKS DS.
    I'm falling apart to songs about hips and hearts...
  • I'm lucky to have the job I have. I worked in shops, decided to join a bank, ended up having to move branches due to having a breakdown over a lack of cash, met my wife in the new branch, wife's brother worked for a stock broker and got me the job I have today.
    We're not exactly well off, but we're not exactly poor either. I am still in this job to my own hard work however.
    Town name: Downton - Name: Nick - Native Fruit: Apples
  • Tempy wrote:
    I have no anecdotal evidence of millionaires. I would like to meet one and ask them what their life is like.

    Just log in to twitter.

    Dante. People from broken homes are going to have a more disruptive upbringing so will find it harder to achieve.
    Currently playing; Mario Maker and Clash Royale
  • Dark Soldier
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    @DS Even the newbs who you barely know?

    Even the spambots.

    @Gonz, I'll be knee deep in porn star cunt and weed for a good solid month or so.
    Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious, I romance a mam like oedipus
  • Yossarian
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    That's down to the fact that executive pay is going through the roof whilst that for most employees is staying relatively stagnant. The executive class has simply worked out that they can award themselves far more money at the expense of their workers. Hardly something to celebrate.

    Edit: @mk
  • mk64 wrote:
    Tempy wrote:
    I have no anecdotal evidence of millionaires. I would like to meet one and ask them what their life is like.

    Just log in to twitter.

    If you read what I wrote yesterday I didn't say twitter was the only reason. Sure I didn't expand exhaustively on what I meant by 'the life of the rich is more open' (in context of the super rich like Tammy) but do you really need me to?

    What exactly have I done that has riled you so much that you feel the need to act so indignant towards me across multiple threads?
  • Yoss. Quite happy to say that the uk has a lot of people who play the system rather than better themselves. There are lots of jobs out there right now. The reason people don't have those jobs is because they don't have the qualifications or ability. Last I looked schooling is free and upto recently university was on loan from the government.
    Currently playing; Mario Maker and Clash Royale
  • Tempy. I've nothing against you personally. My reaction is based on my previous point. You have a lot to say about millionaires lifestyles for someone who has admitted he doesn't know a single one.
    Currently playing; Mario Maker and Clash Royale
  • I was a millionaire once....in Turkey.
  • I can infer a decent amount of how socialites operate from the evidence presented to me via various sources, yes. Why single me out here? Everyone has done this at some point, unless you've only ever formed an opinion of someone by knowing 100% of their life inside and out. Yesterday I clarified repeatedly 'some' which is quantifiably not 'all' of them.

    More importantly i've never stated it's objective, merely subjective.
  • I was a millionaire once....in Turkey.

    It's not so fun going there now they've removed all those zeroes.
    Town name: Downton - Name: Nick - Native Fruit: Apples
  • Gonz, my personal situation is not that relevant to the discussion.

    Hypothetically, with consolidation going on in various sectors, reduction in cost of production through tech and innovation those at the top of the various behemoths are likely to be controlling a greater share of the market for whatever it is their business is doing and therefore receiving a bigger piece of the pie.
  • mk64 wrote:
    Last I looked schooling is free

    Going to school as a child is free. Adult education for the large part isn't. My sister is doing a CIPD, which is costing several hundred pounds.
  • Moto70
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    I'd like somebody to give a proper example have how hard work (and no luck) makes you succeed? I worked fucking hard for years where I barely saw my family and missed out on a lot of my daughter's first things. Am I successful now? Am I fuck whereas my boss who had the business handed down to him and treats everybody like a cunt is deemed to be successful.

    I'd love to change career but it is virtually impossible for me to do at this moment in time due to a multitude of things, my finances and location being 2 of the main things...
  • mk64 wrote:
    Last I looked schooling is free

    Going to school as a child is free. Adult education for the large part isn't. My sister is doing a CIPD, which is costing several hundred pounds.

    Schooling is free. Getting into a good school isn't.
  • mk64 wrote:
    Yoss. Quite happy to say that the uk has a lot of people who play the system rather than better themselves. There are lots of jobs out there right now. The reason people don't have those jobs is because they don't have the qualifications or ability. Last I looked schooling is free and upto recently university was on loan from the government.

    You've basically walked into a thread full of people who bemoan the fact the less well off are blamed for their situation, and blamed the less well off for their situation.
  • mk64 wrote:
    JonB. I disagree totally. Feel free to give me an example. Yours if its the case.
    Again, it's not really about individuals but social circumstances in general.

    But my case is one in which I've made sacrifices to live on a small income so I can do what I want, yet I still wouldn't have been able to do it without a lot of support, including financial, so it's a very privileged position that a lot of people wouldn't be in a position to take advantage of. There's no way I would have been able to do an MA and a PhD to a decent standard otherwise.
    (Which is, btw, including a degree equivalent to a minimum of 7 years full-time education that usually leads in academia to a not especially large salary, even though one could end up being one of the top experts in their field and be doing work that's beyond most people's abilities - but that's another point about the kind of work, drive and people that are valued.)
  • dynamiteReady
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    No surprise to see this thread move along so quickly.

    I'll refrain from making a contribution right now (if at all).
    "I didn't get it. BUUUUUUUUUUUT, you fucking do your thing." - Roujin
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  • mk64 wrote:
    Upto recently university was on loan from the government.

    Maybe they should go back in time so they can get a free degree.
  • As some of this has stumbled into the realm of anecdote, here's mine.

    I had a nice cosy middle class background, and went to a state school just down the road.  I was relatively studious (certainly compared to most of my peers) and hoped to go to Med School.  Come A levels, and I didn't have anywhere near the grades I needed.  Luckily for me I had two things in my favour.  Firstly I'd had meningitis earlier that year, offering a convenient "explanation" for my grades to Universities.  It's probably worth pausing to point out however that in reality I achieved the highest grade in my maths class that year - an E, which leads me to conclude it wasn't so much the meningitis as the education. 

    The second factor?  A combination of a financial windfall, and parents with savings meant that I could go to a crammer in London, where they quite simply taught me how to get an A.  As a result, I got the grades I needed, and off I went to medical school.

    The difference in the education I recieved was eye opening.  This isn't to say my original school was shit.  They taught me a hell of a lot about the subjects in question.  The other place however, taught me what I needed to say to pass an exam.  Had my parents not been able to afford to buy me that second chance, there's no way I would have ended up being a doctor - and that's coming from a position of relative affluence to start with. 

    We don't all have identical opportunities.  A lot of my school friends didn't make it to sixth form - their parents needed them to get out and work as soon as possible, so they did.  A number of them were, frankly, considerably smarter than I am, but thanks to the realities they were used to, their aspirations were smaller, and their opportunities smaller still.

    People assume that because they worked hard and have done well, the secret to success is working hard.  It helps, sure, but it's far from everything.  I know people who are extraordinarily rich, but so dim witted and ineffectual I wouldn't leave them in charge of a fridge.  I know others who work solidly, often juggling multiple jobs who have, by western terms at least, nothing.
  • All I'm reading is people bitching and moaning. I've read no situation here where people couldn't achieve what they want. Including Moto (reads that you chose the wrong company to work for).

    Fenton, it's not free now so work while you study. Yes you are out back behind people and will take you longer to earn a larger wage but its just harder not impossible.

    Making the right choices helps.

    Also yoss. You keep on about the poor. The vast majority of poor people in the uk have a lot more than in other countries. I honesty think people have too high an expectation of what they should get/achieve.
    Currently playing; Mario Maker and Clash Royale
  • You can read?
  • Gonz, the thread started like that as it was moved from the picture thread. the subject matter is more than the OP.
  • beano
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    mk64 wrote:
    I have no anecdotal evidence of millionaires. I would like to meet one and ask them what their life is like.
    Just log in to twitter. Dante. People from broken homes are going to have a more disruptive upbringing so will find it harder to achieve.

    Someone I know who had a very disruptive upbringing is the best example I have of social mobilty.

    Divorced parents from an early age. Mother with mental disease. Grew up in a run down area of sub-urban Northern city. Cared for their sibs. Rode uni from graduate all the way to PhD on a shoe string. Now lives in Seattle and is a scientist.

    They moans about their predicament, somehow. I should tell them what they are.
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