Scottish Independence: #IndyRef2 - The Bear and Badger

Matt_82

The discussion is only just starting up just now so I thought I'd get a thread going.

What are your thoughts? Desperate to get away from under Westminster control, thinking we're better together or just don't give a fuck?

What will it mean for Scotland, England and anywhere else you care to mention?

Is this Braveheart inspired folly or the realisation of a nation's true potential?

Are the Tories the best thing to happen to the 'Yes' campaign?

My thoughts: I've never been sold on it. A lot of the rhetoric from the 'Yes' lot seemed to be playing on silly feelings of revenge for the backstabbing politics that went on for the forming of the Union rather than from any logical or reasonable standpoint. So I've never been here nor there on it.

That said in the last few years there has been evidence brought forth that seems to show that Scotland isn't the financial basketcase that many think it is. And the prospect of a Tory free existence has merit.

At the moment I am undecided.

Jimmy The Lips

Go for it

Will be interesting to watch what happens, I'm not fussed either way to be honest.

Kow

You need terrorists.

g.man

Fuck independence. It's an idiotic idea.

no thanks

g.man

I_R

People have been voting SNP because Labour being shit for decades has caught up with them, not because they're nationalists. I don't think there's much real support for independence, it'll only happen if the tories make a huge mess of things down south. The 'No' campaign could tip some people over the edge though, cause they look hopeless.

Yossarian

Kow wrote:

You need terrorists.

If those fuckers become independent and leave us with Tory governments for the rest of our lives, I may be willing to oblige.

monkey

If Scotland goes, England will never get rid of the Tories.

regmcfly

Independence is dumb. No thanks.

Rev

I'm against this purely because of the insane amounts of money the Scottish government will spend on pish when it tries to rebrand everything 'scottish'
Not to mention all the consultants, administration and middle management that will appear from nowhere that will need to be funded.
I will end up paying more taxes, petrol will go through the roof and ill end up moving.
So no.

regmcfly

Oh god. Independent Scotland or GOVE'S ENGLAND?!?

Sophie, make a pick.

Diluted Dante

regmcfly wrote:

Oh god. Independent Scotland or GOVE'S ENGLAND?!? Sophie, make a pick.

Ireland eh?

Matt_82

I_R wrote:

People have been voting SNP because Labour being shit for decades has caught up with them, not because they're nationalists. I don't think there's much real support for independence, it'll only happen if the tories make a huge mess of things down south. The 'No' campaign could tip some people over the edge though, cause they look hopeless.

Yeah the 'No' campaign is a shambles. They don't seem committed to or capable of arguing their case. Danny Alexander (who's name I got by Googling 'Lib Dem Beaker') was on Newsnight last night discussing the issue of currency. He was pointing out that Scotland wouldn't have its own currency. When he was asked if Scotland could just use the pound (with an agreement) he dodged the question completely.

Coming onto discuss these things then shirking away from the questions really makes it look like the 'No' campaign has nothing of substance and is doing more harm than good.

IMO they need to find a non-tory figurehead and really buck up their ideas.

Sasukekun

How much of Scottish life is subsidised by taxpayers? Do Scotland get any perks that people in England don't get? I've heard rumours of heavily subsidised University education and medication, but am unsure if this is true. What happens if Scotland becomes independent if these are the case?
Also, maybe the No vote is doing a purposefully bad job to get rid of Scotland from the Nation's tax bill

beano

Rab is all for independence.

Me, I keep forgetting this isn't rhetoric.

I_R

Sas: University tuition and prescriptions are free.

If independence happened - and remember, it won't - the theory is that and independent Scotland would cut spending elsewhere to cover those costs. The more cynical theory is that the SNP use the independence debate to squeeze more cash out of Westminster and make themselves more popular.

MattyJ

So what does independence actually mean? Do they still get money from other UK tax paying countries?

Matt_82

It means FREEEEEEEEEEDUUUUUUUUUUUUUMMMM!!!

Sorry.

I_R

MattyJ wrote:

So what does independence actually mean? Do they still get money from other UK tax paying countries?

No, it would be a separate country, we'd just have to share the royals.

MattyJ

I_R wrote:

MattyJ wrote:

So what does independence actually mean? Do they still get money from other UK tax paying countries?

No, it would be a separate country, we'd just have to share the royals.

I see. So how will it affect UK? As in, can England, Wales and Ireland get by without Scottish tax?

GooberTheHat

What happens to the military? Also would they have to renegotiate membership of the EU and NATO. Who gets North Sea Oil?

GooberTheHat

I have heard that the city of London contributes more in tax revenue than Scotland entirely. I have no idea as to the validity of that statement.

I_R

MattyJ wrote:

I see. So how will it affect UK? As in, can England, Wales and Ireland get by without Scottish tax?

They should be able to. The oil would be more of a problem. There's also nowhere to base Trident outside of Scotland.

There's a mass of complicated stuff like share of national debt, maritime borders, EU and NATO membership, currency, postal service and telecoms that would all be a massive pain in the arse to sort out after independence. There's also loads of people up here that wouldn't call themselves unionists, but probably would if they had to think about this stuff.

GooberTheHat

Postal service and telecom shouldn't be a problem as all that is privatised anyway isn't it?

beano

Elm mentioned something about military a while back; he works for the British armed forces.

I guess we'd have to rent the sites off of Scotland...this is all kerzayzee.

I_R

UK government is the only shareholder in Royal Mail.

Having your telecoms infrastructure owned by a foreign company seems a bit odd as well. I'm assuming the same could be said for the railways.

GooberTheHat

Edit: @beano

So do I, nothing has been mentioned really regarding what would happen should they become independent.

GooberTheHat

Cheers I_R, wasn't aware of the Royal Mail thing. Thought it was properly privatised now.

WorKid

Successive governments North and South of the border have spend great amounts of energy destroying the union. Devolved powers, stupid mayors, increasing focus on the home counties, titting about with infrastructure.

Is it any wonder people are sick of it.

Lord_Griff

It would be great place to start Yoss' and EC's society experiment. Get independence and then as you'll have a subsistance economy you can eradicate money..... And chairs.... And have one guy making battered Mars bars 2 days a week.

Diluted Dante

They'd make them for fun on the other 5.

Mod74

I've no problem with bits of land on an island being owned by different people. I've just never heard a good argument for what the benefits are.

Surely there's loads of stuff that's currently provided by national (UK) organisations that they'd have to either replicate or rent in (for some reason I always think of air traffic control).

I don't think you'd ever be able to have a completely clean break, so will end up with a massive fudge. Much like the one we have now but multiplied by a thousand. So what's the point?

How does North/South Ireland do it?

Howdy, Stranger!

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