Vaping and ecigs.
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  • Yossarian
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    Thought I'd start a new topic for this as it doesn't really fit into the smoking thread where it has been under discussion, and as I know that both Mos and NMD are on the ecigs and there may be others considering a switch, I thought it might be a good place to trade advice.

    So, after trying out Rob's eGo C at Londonstock last month, I invested in a starter kit myself. Generally, it's been giving me my nicotine fix and keeping me off the cigs, but I got sick to death of it leaking everywhere, so I did a bit of research (during which I discovered just how much Totally Wicked are overcharging for their products, but that's by the by), and wound up investing in a couple of Mini Vivi Novas from a place called Vaper One (who, incidentally, I can highly recommend for their speed of delivery and low prices). They're great. No more leaking juice, a decent hit of vapour and you can replace the heads with ones with a lower resistance if you're looking for a more powerful one. I also bought a couple of plinths from them to cover the exposed threads and make the cigs look more streamlined, although it doesn't quite stop them from looking like something you'd expect to see in Frankenstein's laboratory.

    Rob, I can highly recommend them.

    I'm currently trying to track down a supply of 1.8ohm heads for when mine run out and some decent juice. I liked the Totally Wicked stuff but, as I say, they are very expensive. Are there any other vapers out there that have any suggestions?
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  • Yossarian
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    I'm enjoying the ecigs for doing such a good job of mimicking smoking. It's not just about wanting to quit smoking and not wanting cravings, I enjoy nicotine itself and the little buzz it gives me.

    Plus, I'd imagine that that Quickmist doesn't go nearly as well with a pint or a coffee as my vanilla eliquid (I tend to prefer strong menthol when I'm not consuming anything else).
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    I've been on the e-cigs for about a week now. 100% for the last few days.

    Had been looking at those fancy ones for a while but on a whim got a Litejoy one from the corner shop. Been working fine really. The only thing I don't like is the battery lasts 1-2 days tops so has to go on charge every night.

    Which exactly did you buy? Can't seem to see a mini nova on that site.
  • Yossarian
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    The Mini Novas are on there in the Vision Vivi Nova section on the right. You connect them to a battery and they contain the juice and the atomizer head which turns it into vapour. I'm using mine with a couple of Joyetech eGo C batteries, which seem to be fairly well received, although if I was starting again from scratch, I think I might go for a couple of eGo Twist batteries instead which allow you to change the voltage you're passing through the head and so alter the amount of vapour you can get out of them.

    My setup looks something like this:

    2013-06-27%2016.08.52.jpg

    The plinths aren't actually necessary, but without them you get exposed threads between the battery and the Nova and the whole thing just looks a bit less aesthetically pleasing. If you can call that aesthetically pleasing in the first place.

    The Vivi Novas are a type of Clearomizer which is one vaping setup, the one I originally had that leaked everywhere was an atomizer + tank setup (I don't know that these are generally prone to leaking or just the one on the eGo C, but the ones on the eGo C certainly are). There are also Cartomizers, but I'm still not quite sure what those are, and possibly others, but this one is doing it for me right now.
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  • This is fucking stupid.

    Just smoke if you want to. Grow some balls.
    Currently playing; Pokemon Lets go Evee and Clash Royale
  • Yossarian
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    This is a damn sight cheaper. Or at least it will be now that I've got a a setup I'm happy with (assuming I don't crack and buy myself twist batteries any time soon). Plus, I can sit in a pub with a beer and vape rather than having to go outside for a cigarette. Not to mention the fact that it avoids all of the downsides of smoking; decreased lung capacity, smelling of smoke and even, to the best of our knowledge, early death.
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  • mk64 wrote:
    This is fucking stupid. Just smoke if you want to. Grow some balls.

    What if you want to 'vape' (don't like that term)? Grow some balls and do it I guess.

    Not that that's the reason I use ecigs - I'm getting older and am very unfit, so this is one way of improving my lungs, reducing the risk of disease, avoid ear ache from the gf AND continue to smoke. My balls are fine thank you.

    Edit - will post with actual ecig use musings later
  • Yossarian wrote:
    The Vivi Novas are a type of Clearomizer which is one vaping setup, the one I originally had that leaked everywhere was an atomizer + tank setup (I don't know that these are generally prone to leaking or just the one on the eGo C, but the ones on the eGo C certainly are). There are also Cartomizers, but I'm still not quite sure what those are, and possibly others, but this one is doing it for me right now.

    Are you making this up?!

    If so, can I use it when I get round writing my sci-fi bestseller?!

    Welcome to the future.
  • Yossarian
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    No, I really am not. If I was, I wouldn't be using Zs in words that should clearly contain Ss.
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  • I presume most of you are smokers, 

    Smoking causes lung cancer right? But how come some people live for 70 years without even so much as a cough when smoking 20 a day? 

    I appreciate both statements (or question and statement) are generalizations but can someone clarify the situation for me pls?
    Currently playing; Pokemon Lets go Evee and Clash Royale
  • It increases your chances of getting lung cancer.

    Anyway, I've stopped since Sunday. Was down to only a few a day, so not too much of a drop (no need for silly gadgets). I think I mean it this time.
  • Yossarian
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    mk64 wrote:
    I presume most of you are smokers, 

    Smoking causes lung cancer right? But how come some people live for 70 years without even so much as a cough when smoking 20 a day? 

    Luck.
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  • Increases your chances by how much?
    Currently playing; Pokemon Lets go Evee and Clash Royale
  • yoss - seem to be alot of lucky people no?
    Currently playing; Pokemon Lets go Evee and Clash Royale
  • Yossarian
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    I don't know of very many individuals who smoked twenty a day for fifty years who didn't die of a smoking-related illness.
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  • I probably sounded quite snappy in my previous comment to you there MK, but I have a gripe with the Noel Gallagher argument, "If you want to smoke have a real one, don't be a pussy". I can pretty much agree with him but there are plenty of other considerations that I have to make, not least the massive ball aching I receive from the lady for smoking. I fucking love smoking and if they invented a pill I could take which negated all the bad effects I'd happily smoke all the time for the rest of my life. As it is though, that pill doesn't exist and, watching my dad's health deteriorate over the decades (not just from smoking, granted) combined with aforementioned lady-woe has informed my decision to at least cut down, and using ecigs is a tool for that purpose.

    I'm still smoking delicious, proper cigs quite regularly, usually using my ecig throughout the day and switching to rollies when drinking or relaxing at home (should cut out the home ones really). I reckon I've reduced my 'proper' cigs by around 40%, which doesn't seem like enough but hey, is a start.

    For those interested, I'm using a skycig (http://www.skycig.co.uk/) gizmo that the lady got on a deal. Seem more expensive than others for the refill but you get a nice hit. Cartridges can be a little leaky at times though, which I'm not a fan of. I lumped for a stash of refills but may switch up to a different make when they run out.
  • Yossarian
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    And going back to the economic argument for a moment, I reckon that with my current setup, I'll be lucky to get through 10ml of juice per week (about £3 worth if you buy large bottles) and may have to change, at most, one atomiser head per week (under £2). Compare that to the £20+ that I was spending on baccy and other related paraphernalia, and I'm looking at saving myself almost £750 per year. That's a pretty compelling reason on its own.
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  • mk64 wrote:
    I presume most of you are smokers,  Smoking causes lung cancer right? But how come some people live for 70 years without even so much as a cough when smoking 20 a day?  I appreciate both statements (or question and statement) are generalizations but can someone clarify the situation for me pls?

    Seriously?

    OK, here goes...

    As others have pointed out, smoking increases your risk of lung cancer.  You can get lung cancer if you don't smoke.  You can smoke and never get lung cancer.

    However, to put it in perspective - you are 25 times more likely to get lung cancer if you smoke. 

    For good measure you're also more likely to get cancer of the oesophagus, larynx, pharynx, pancreas, bladder, sinuses, stomach, liver and kidney.  Also some forms of leukaemia, and cervical cancer.  It looks increasingly likely that bowel cancer and ovarian cancer can be added to the list too.  (There's a classic 50 year study on smoking and various cancers, including lung here.)

    Regular exposure to passive smoke affords about a 25% increase in lung cancer.

    Smoking also significantly increases your risk of heart attack or stroke.

    The one no-one ever really seems to talk about is Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease (COPD).  It's the 4th largest cause of death in the UK, after heart attack, lung cancer and stroke.  It's also almost entirely caused by smoking.  (Occassionally by exposure to other toxic gases.)  This isn't one where it increases your risk, it's one where it's actively the cause.  So it's totally preventable.  To oversimplify massively, COPD is like irreversible asthma.  It doesn't get the press that cancer does, because it's slow, gradually worsening over time.  Which means it progressively buggers up the quality of your life over a protracted period before finally killing you.  We're all going to die, but COPD makes the period that you're alive significantly shitter. 

    So how come there are so many "lucky people" who live to a ripe old age despite smoking?  Because the 100,000 who die in the UK every year because of their habit, aren't around to tell you about it.

    If all this sounds like some anti-smoking diatribe, it's not.  It is, I suppose, an anti-ignorance about smoking diatribe.  No-one's going to live forever, and we're all welcome to do what the hell we like to our bodies in the interim.  As long as it's an educated decision there's nothing wrong with it at all.  (I'll skip over the issue of passive smoking.)  But it's genuinely frustrating when people wheel out the old "my grandad smoked 40 a day and he lived to 93 so it must be alright" line.  I mean, I've been run over several times without any major injuries, but I wouldn't advise running in front of a lorry.

    Anyway, sorry, as you were...
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    Tell me whether these e-cigs are "healthier" or not?
  • mk64 wrote:
    Increases your chances by how much?
    I think someone was telling me if you smoke a few a day it's increases the normal chances by about 3 times, if you smoke around a pack it's more like 15 times. You'd have to check though.

    Anyway, it's not only about cancer, as has been said.

    Edit: Ok, what Dr. Robot said.
  • JonB wrote:
    mk64 wrote:
    Increases your chances by how much?
    I think someone was telling me if you smoke a few a day it's increases the normal chances by about 3 times, if you smoke around a pack it's more like 15 times. You'd have to check though. Anyway, it's not only about cancer, as has been said. Edit: Ok, what Dr. Robot said.

    The 25x risk quoted is for those smoking 25 cigs a day or more.  Risk is about 15 times higher than normal in the 1-14 cigs/day group.  (Based on the paper I linked to before, Table 1.)
  • Yossarian
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    Mod74 wrote:
    Tell me whether these e-cigs are "healthier" or not?

    I think that there's little argument about whether or not it's healthier, many of the 4,000 chemicals are proven to be harmful on their own. AFAIK, there's no proof that nicotine on its own is harmful, but then no-one has ever had just nicotine on a daily basis for a long time, so as to whether it's harmful or not, it's best to say the jury's still out.
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    Not so worried about the chemicals, but do these e-cigs definitely not gum up your innards? What's actually in them..just nicotine and water?
  • Yossarian
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    Nicotine and a dilutant, there are two or three different ones out there all of which have long, complicated names that I can't remember off the top of my head.
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  • thanks Tin, thats exactly the info I needed!!

    also is the 3mins off your life per cigarette a real stat?
    Currently playing; Pokemon Lets go Evee and Clash Royale
  • mk64 wrote:
    thanks Tin, thats exactly the info I needed!! also is the 3mins off your life per cigarette a real stat?

    I've actually never heard the 3 minute line before.  The BMJ once ran a piece suggesting each cigarette takes 11 minutes off your life - here.  I'd treat it with a slight pinch of salt, there are some fairly obvious issues with looking at the life expectancy of smokers and non-smokers, and then magically coming up with a figure per cigarette.  But yeah - 11 minutes.
  • Sorry to butinski, but as a life-long non smoker, i think i occupy the total moral high ground  and therefore am best placed to be completly right about everything about this issue.   I think all this vaping stuff is silly, just because the people who use them look a low budget Sherlock Holmes from a crappy fan fiction youtube project set in the future written by a group of young people, currently living in the Ukraine. I'm drunk.

    EDIT: now sober, apologies to all you cyber smokers.
    Ps4:MrSpock1980J     XBL-360: Jadgey      
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  • I read somewhere (a medical source generally considered reliable, I forget which) that recent university research into the link between habitual smoking and cancer has confirmed a genetic factor too. i.e. there is a specific gene which considerably affects your predisposition to smoking-related cancers, so although everything that tin said is unquestionably true, there's also a further genetic qualifier, which is another reason why some people can be lifelong smokers without contracting cancer, whilst others are on a constant hair-trigger.

    Of course, as tin also pointed out, COPD etc should be more than enough reason in itself to want to get shot of any smoking habit.
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    Can someone help me out, tell me which turbo pipe to buy?

    I'm not getting the advertised "40 cigarettes" out of these little screw in cartridges so am looking to go up to the refill it yourself type.

    I saw this that looked good

    http://www.litejoy.co.uk/ego-t-electronic-cigarette-range/ego-crystal-electronic-cigarette-black.html

    But figured this

    http://www.vaperone.co.uk/ego_ce4_1100_mah_kit/p1365275_6697421.aspx

    Was more or less the same thing for £15 less. Is that right? Is that a good one to go for? The set up Yoss has up top seems complicated.
  • Yossarian
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    Looks like it's the same except that the first will hold a little more charge, although I don't claim to be an expert on the Joyetech range.
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  • Both of those are really similar to the one that Yoss has tbh. It's a screw on battery and a tank/vapouriser system. My buying choice would be based on how much the replacement coil things are that go inside the tanks (my vapourisers have lasted 8 weeks now if that's any help, milage may obviously vary depending on use!)

    Edit: @Yossarian , Yoss could you link me to the Mini Nova heads btw (and the replacement atomisers). I'm fine using the original tank setup at home as I don't shake the things around, but wouldn't mind investing in a slightly more 'watertight' setup for when I play golf or go out.
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