Must be a very small fraction of the time, and only after hundreds of hours practice. Even then, when you're not getting complimentary cards and relics there's not very much you can do about it is there?

I'm speaking as a novice obviously, only had a few hours on it.

I can’t exactly say I am good at it, but if RNG were a huge factor, Face, Boris and Rouj wouldn’t have been able to rapidly climb the ascension levels in the thread.

You could mash your face against it but the RNG in StS isn't strong enough to pull you into a win situation. I think youd be looking at hundreds of runs inthe ascencion levels.

You have to know how to build decks, what you're going to fight, how to make good choices, what routes to chase. There are too many moving parts for RNG to be the primary factor. Knowing your enemies, knowing what relics and what cards are good at any given time.

I am not saying RNG can't hand you good combos like it did for you, because it can happen and god knows it has happened to me a few times, but you simply don't need those super powerful combos to win. You focus on core fundamentals and your deck stays strong.

Certain things grease the wheels but the game incredibly well tuned, and you realise the more that you play that RNG just isn't a massive factor in determing if you win or lose. It's more about the decisions you make. The game doesn't often fuck you, due to the way handing out cards and potions works. The numbers are always ticking up to a good drop.

The top players of things like StS are obviously on a different level, but the key to winning is still good decision making and critical thinking, which is far more within grasp of an average joe than hightened reflexes. I learned a lot watching Jorbs play, and even more when I did that ill-fated interview with him. It's a game where the fudamentals matter a lot more than the fates aligning.

It’s there, I just think it isn’t the defining factor of winning or losing.

Bump because I saw 2 interesting Rogues on steam this morning.
Curse of the dead gods. Focus interactive, which is neither a sure sign of quality or trash.

https://youtu.be/57tvlAQ36hE

And Savage Vessels.

https://youtu.be/EpKUmMcXLM4

I have no further info on either, have seen nothing, read nothing. Anyone else?

So I've been playing One Step from Eden quite a lot this week, and it's actually pretty damn good.

At least, it's eventually pretty damn good. Because it's also pretty damn difficult and has a particularly steep learning curve, which doesn't ease you into the tricky balance of simultaneous bullet hell style dodging and deck management.

For a while I was despairing at the insanity of what it was asking, but then I unlocked an alternate loadout for the starting character which gives you a slow down time weapon and since then it's all started to come together. Honestly that really should have been the default.

Anyway, now I've unlocked some other characters and plenty more cards, got the hang of the attack patterns and started to memorise the card icons and it definitely works. I even reached the final boss on one run earlier, which never seemed possible a few days ago.

If you can tolerate the early difficulty until you've unlocked more options, it's well worth it.

One Step from Eden is a goodie, aye. Single dev as well, I think.

I still haven't finish it even once. It's definitely a bit too tough for me. But I keep going back.

I had a quick go and found it very confusing

I was told that a patch should come at some point to make it easier. Hopefully it happens because the difficulty is the only real issue for me.

I mean, I like it, but it took a good few hours to really get into the swing of it, and even now it's tough, so take that into account.

It's not redundant, as there are clearly mechanics and synergies in place that you can exploit. It's never going to be as tactically deep as a turn-based game, of course, because you don't have much time to think. It's a case of learning to recognise everything instantly and knowing when to hold certain cards back or get into a certain position before using them, and eventually that becomes second nature.

You can also choose to 'focus' on certain card classes, which increases your chance of them dropping, so you can kind of direct your build to, say, make it more likely you'll get poison cards or whatever. And there are plenty of classes with different effects that can change how you play. Once you've unlocked quite a few cards and got into that it gets more interesting.

Tried two Rogues today.

Mana Spark. Pixel art on the low end side. Didn't really give it a super chance, but meh. Top downish, OG zelda angle, you shoot bows. Aim with right stick, move with left. Just not enough charm/instant anything to get me going. Anyone else given it more time. I'm willing to believe there's more to it.

Book Of Demons. Now this is interesting. Clearly been around a while and iterated. Seems to be set up to be either Diablo or pure roguelike. Iso view Darkest Dungeon with very different movement. Way to early to say, but seems to be slick as hell and with a bunch of neat ideas, even just one level past the tutes.

I think some others have dabbled. @tempy, maybe?

I completed Mana Spark, it's alright... It has a new expansion I can't imagine ever playing now Noita is here.

Article I read in a mag today suggested that team is a bit of a Lionhead old boys club.