A pun about Souls, or something. It's a genre, innit - The Bear and Badger

Facewon

So I've been enjoying folks actually using the roguelike thread. And it's been handy to find lots of new fun stuff.

Even though I rarely finish them these days, I am continually fascinated by the Souls like "genre." Fascinated that it's so seemingly popular, fascinated in how the souls mechanics/tropes fit into gaming language.

I can't think of a Souls like that has come close to any of From outings. But I've appreciated a number of attempts.

The Surge. SF setting and a few other neat ideas. Never finished the first, but gave it a fair wack. Good shot.

Ashen. Clearly flawed, and got some difficulty spikes wrong without actually doing the get gud thing quite right. BUT, 2-3 dungeons that are all timers for atmosphere for me.

Lords of the Fallen. An early one, and just pants, IMO.

Immortal Unchained. Souls with guns. I think I did a thread. First area and you're just hoping it can maintain, because there was something awesome about it, but JESUS did it drop the fucking ball.

I'm now trying out Shattered: Tale of the Forgotten King, which is in EA at the moment. It's a fucking wild ride of design decisions. Fighting is deeply flawed, it's mixing in 2d platforming, and all sorts of other things are weird, but fuck me if it doesn't have some things right and have some charm. Hoping it's a long way from release.

(I haven't mentioned any of the proper 2d "souls", but should mention Hollow Knight in here as well, I guess. What a game!)

Hellpoint seems to fall into the same category as a lot of the above, haven't played it yet, unless it's been in EA for ages, and I may have tried it years ago.

Anyhoo, talk about Souls likes. Good ones, bad ones, why they can get tae fuck. What do other devs miss about the fighting? Because they sure miss something. I know Reg is not a fan, and I'd actually dig a rant about why.

From my personal experience Dark Souls came along at a time when I was struggling to feel anything with games, and it was just refreshing AF. For a while, made it tough to play other games.

I know, because I've tried with DS3, that lightning hasn't struck twice, and the hard yards required aren't in me any more, even though I keep going to the damn well (lol).

Anyhoo, speak more on the 2d ones too.

JonB

Nioh, but especially Nioh 2. It's overly weighed down with loot, but the combat is top tier. Souls meets Ninja Gaiden.

mistercrayon

What is souls like? Campfires?

Diluted Dante

Soul U Gotz?

RamSteelwood

mistercrayon wrote:

What is souls like? Campfires?

It's when they take a game that you would have loved when younger, but it's too hard/time consuming for you now and so you get bitter about not really enjoying it as much as others.
At least, IMHO!

Facewon

JonB wrote:

Nioh, but especially Nioh 2. It's overly weighed down with loot, but the combat is top tier. Souls meets Ninja Gaiden.

Appreciate a lot about ninja gaiden, but fuck me could I not deal with the combat.

Noih looks wizbang, but I fear I would suck.

Why is only the first on steam? Delayed release because it's mainly a console thing?

mistercrayon wrote:

What is souls like? Campfires?

Well, for most of the above, it's all of the game mechanics. Right down to identical button layouts.

Bonfires. Souls as currency which is lost when you die. Stamina bar, and according to everyone but From (and Noih I'd guess), plodding combat movement.

Tempy

Nioh 2 will be on PC eventually, which is why I didn't get it on PS4.

I think most of the mechanical considerations of Soul like games are less interesting when they're transplanted outside of the worlds themselves at least for me, which is why Hollow Knight works so well. I rarely have the energy to play these games more than once, because exploring is the enjoyment for me, not the stat wank or stodgy combat, which explains why I've played Bloodborne and especially Sekiro through more times combined than the other four.

JonB

Facewon wrote:

JonB wrote:

Nioh, but especially Nioh 2. It's overly weighed down with loot, but the combat is top tier. Souls meets Ninja Gaiden.

Appreciate a lot about ninja gaiden, but fuck me could I not deal with the combat. Noih looks wizbang, but I fear I would suck. Why is only the first on steam? Delayed release because it's mainly a console thing?

Ah yes, forgot it was only PS4 so far. I don't think it's ridiculous in terms of difficulty. Certainly a good challenge, of course, but summoning is always an option. I found the bosses to be perfectly pitched in terms of complexity and harshness - probably my favourite examples in all these games.

Facewon

One to keep an eye on then.

I really should hurry up and get seriko.

@curtis do hellpoint report here.

Please.

JonB

Hellpoint looks very ordinary. Low on budget, low on imagination. At least it's cheapish.

Facewon

Playing a number of these over the years and its clear, I think, that there's a sense the mechanics are somehow simple to pull off. If we just do x y and z, win. And it's clearly not the case.

Moot_Geeza

Why is Titan Souls referred to as a Souls influenced title? I remember seeing it in reviews and it's on the Wiki entry. Is it because the guardians can be tackled in any order (and it has 'Souls' in the title)?

JonB

Moot_Geeza wrote:

Why is Titan Souls referred to as a Souls influenced title? I remember seeing it in reviews and it's on the Wiki entry. Is it because the guardians can be tackled in any order (and it has 'Souls' in the title)?

Perhaps it's the lack of hand-holding and direction, the tough bosses, or the atmosphere of mystery. But it's all quite tenuous. There's nothing about it that's very obviously Souls-inspired.

Edit: I think there's a tendency these days to slap a 'Soulslike' label on anything that doesn't tell you what to do all the time and has a vaguely foreboding atmosphere.

acemuzzy

The clue's in the name lads, this isn't hard

Gremill

Diluted Dante wrote:

Soul U Gotz?

Extremely obscure reference there Dante, well done.

JonB

acemuzzy wrote:

The clue's in the name lads, this isn't hard

Really though, this is probably the real answer. It's 'Soulslike' in that they wanted the name to sound like Dark Souls and cash in on some of the hype going round at the time.

tigersgogrrr

Didn't it just riff on the 'kill seemingly insurmountable bosses and take their souls' thing? Like, distilling that into the sole objective of the game?

More or a nod (a full how, really) to a beloved game than actually aping the structure in anything but the most basic way.

stonechalice

I like souls games because generally you can take your time and work out the best strategy for an encounter. The plodding movement and rhythm is all part of that. You have to think about when to strike and when to block and when to roll. There's always multiple ways to tackle a fight at any given second.

I also love it when the devs incorporate environmental stuff into fights like barrels down stairs and weak walls that fall in on enemies and stuff. I'd love to see a lot more of that in future soulslikes.

Moot_Geeza

Is Salt and Sanctuary worth a go in 2020?

stonechalice

There's another I've not played...

nick_md

What's the best souls game to try for someone cheap who doesn't want to spend much more than a tenner? Ps4

Curtis

There's also Mortal Shell which recently had an open beta test. A lot of players seemed to like it, but i found its rather sluggish (by design) and it didn't really click with me.

I'll probably pick up the full release when it drops. Deserves a second look.

Curtis

nick_md wrote:

What's the best souls game to try for someone cheap who doesn't want to spend much more than a tenner? Ps4

Dark Souls Remastered

I'll paypal you the difference if you're that skint.

nick_md

Tempting... anything on the ps store for that impulse moment?

Subbax

Sekiro sounded like it fits the Souls mould but I never got around to playing it. Is it worth a bash?

I'm severely limiting my currently play list to 2 games so it'll be competing with DS3 Cinders mod.

JonB

nick_md wrote:

What's the best souls game to try for someone cheap who doesn't want to spend much more than a tenner? Ps4

Dark Souls 2 and 3 are both on sale atm for around that. I still prefer the first one, but they're both well worth playing. 3 has the advantage of current gen visuals.

There's also Bloodborne at £16, and it sometimes gets reduced further. I'd take that over either of the Souls sequels. It forces you to play more aggressively and simplifies some of the RPG stuff.

nick_md

JonB wrote:

nick_md wrote:

What's the best souls game to try for someone cheap who doesn't want to spend much more than a tenner? Ps4

Dark Souls 2 and 3 are both on sale atm for around that. I still prefer the first one, but they're both well worth playing. 3 has the advantage of current gen visuals.

There's also Bloodborne at £16, and it sometimes gets reduced further. I'd take that over either of the Souls sequels. It forces you to play more aggressively and simplifies some of the RPG stuff.

Nice, 2 is sub £10 and 3 is a fraction over. Hive mind opinion on which to go for? I'm assuming I won't miss much by not playing on he first?

Leaning towards 3 for the gen gfx.

JonB

Moot_Geeza wrote:

Is Salt and Sanctuary worth a go in 2020?

I would think so. It's very Souls-inspired, but in 2D that makes for something more like a typical Metroidvania. Maybe post-Hollow Knight it would seem a little less impressive, but it's still got plenty going for it.

nick_md

Bloodborne for £15

JonB

nick_md wrote:

JonB wrote:

nick_md wrote:

What's the best souls game to try for someone cheap who doesn't want to spend much more than a tenner? Ps4

Dark Souls 2 and 3 are both on sale atm for around that. I still prefer the first one, but they're both well worth playing. 3 has the advantage of current gen visuals. There's also Bloodborne at £16, and it sometimes gets reduced further. I'd take that over either of the Souls sequels. It forces you to play more aggressively and simplifies some of the RPG stuff.

Nice, 2 is sub £10 and 3 is a fraction over. Hive mind opinion on which to go for? I'm assuming I won't miss much by not playing on he first? Leaning towards 3 for the gen gfx.

Yeah, I'd probably lean towards 3 for the better level design and visuals. Unless you can stretch to Bloodborne.

I don't suppose you've had PS+ ongoing for a while - BB was one of the monthly games a while back.

Curtis

Go for Dark Souls 3. Its basically Greatest Hits Souls.

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