FPS - is the world going to shit - The Bear and Badger

mk64

Over the last ten years FPS games have dominated the gaming market. What is it about us that makes us want to shoot each other so much?

Do you feel the normalisation of shooting people in ever realistic games is having an impact on you, your children, society?

Will another genre over take it in the future?

GooberTheHat

Ever since 3d engines became a thing (and even before if you remember Doom) I would say FPS games have dominated, at least in terms of attention and industry press coverage. I don't think it's necessarily a recent thing.

davyK

I'm more concerned about the amount of resources the genre soaks up that might be diverted to something that interests me more.

As I kid I played "Germans & British" with sticks as pretend guns... Lads will always love shooting at things.

Tempy

They have big marketing budgets

afgavinstan

Then also Fortnite is 3rd person and tbh now I think of it its a bit mad those weapons are clearly modelled on real life counterparts to some degree.

At least in my retail days I could recommend the more fantastical fps' to parents as the weapons aren't "real" and shoot lasers not bullets.

GooberTheHat

Do they dominate though? It might seem like they do but is that just down to the amount of attention they are given? Is there any data to say they are becoming more prevalent or are you just more aware of them?

Yossarian

It’s more Call of Duty than FPSs in general, I’d say.

As for the violence in videogames question, that just makes me feel like I’m back in the early 90s.

Dinostar77

Shooting in most FPS is to be expected.

Excessive shooting in 3rd person games that arent FPS's and dont have a "war" theme is more troubling. Yep im in that soapbox again, Mr Drake and Ms Croft you mass murderers.

GooberTheHat

My mum wouldn't buy me GTA (the original top down version), probably because of something she read in the Daily Mail.

Violence in games is just like a roller-coaster. It's a safe environment in which we know no harm will come to us or anyone else. I don't think it indicates, or encourages violence in anyone. I would caveat that by saying things should be age appropriate, but parents need to exercise the same discretion and oversight that they would with films. And people who may be suffering from a psychological disorder might be "triggered" by something they experience in a game, but that's an edge case in the extreme.

My daughter loves sneakily attacking me in lego games. There is no reason to do this, it doesn't benefit her in the game in any way, she just thinks it's funny. She's not violent put she will happily hulk smash me if she gets the chance. Reading anything else into game violence is a real stretch imo.

GooberTheHat

Dinostar77 wrote:

Shooting in most FPS is to be expected.

Excessive shooting in 3rd person games that arent FPS's and dont have a "war" theme is more troubling. Yep im in that soapbox again, Mr Drake and Ms Croft you mass murderers.

I don't find it troubling other than for the reason it's lazy and boring, and I'd like to do a bit more sneaking and exploring with Lara, rather than fighting.

mistercrayon

Wha is the basis for this statement?

Fortnite and Minecraft - the biggest FP games are not realistic or that violent.

Certainly fortnite seems to be sold on principally it’s not shooting.

Actually is Fortnite fp?

Yossarian

Nope.

EvilRedEye

They've ruined my life, I keep shooting people to death with guns in real life and I just can't stop. Damn you FPSs!!

RedDave2

mk64 wrote:

Over the last ten years FPS games have dominated the gaming market. What is it about us that makes us want to shoot each other so much? Do you feel the normalisation of shooting people in ever realistic games is having an impact on you, your children, society? Will another genre over take it in the future?

I dont think the opening statement works though - (The 20 Best-Selling Video Games Of 2019 (forbes.com)) but I think the overall question is a good one. Why are games so violent when its not needed.

A lot of us here have bemoaned the likes of Tomb Raider and Uncharted where you have to gun down thousands of enemies which gets boring quick and completely undermines the characters and story that the games cut scenes are trying to portray. I personally find too many games through in nsaty bits of gore that really add nothing to the game - Theres several in the Call of Duty stuff but I think Gears of late is one of the worst. The game throughs up so much gore and blood its at the point of comical (maybe thats the intent) It doesnt put me off the game, put it means that I wouldnt play it with my daughter around or even my nephew (although at this point, he is probably playing much worse) Swearing is another unnecessary addition to some games - its not going to put me off but it often becomes childish and therefore pointless.

A key offender for me in this now that I think of it is the GTA games - its an amazing world but its always played from the point of view of being the aggressor, being the violent one. Its a real pity.

On the plus side, the switch has been popular both as a machine and in terms of what sells on it and it shows that there is a huge market for games that arent about blood, guts, military jargon and realism.

Tempy

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.pcgamer.com/uk/amp/8-of-the-10-best-selling-games-of-the-decade-were-call-of-duty

7 of the 10 best-selling games of the decade were Call of Duty

GTAV unsurprisingly number one, RDR2 and Minecraft also in there. No numbers on Fortnite, cos you can’t buy it, though i’d hazard for revenue and times downloaded it’s feature in there.

These are just the games that the generalist audience play most, along with FIFA and so on.

Edit: giving up with the url tags, my phone won’t play ball

davyK

Nintendo successfully took the FPS genre and created Splatoon. So shooting isn't necessary. Ninty use shooting sparingly and it has served them well.

There is something inherently funny about shooting an avatar in an FPS game when your mate is controlling it though. So it will always be around. The deathmatch is the making of the genre.

RedDave2

Tempy wrote:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.pcgamer.com/uk/amp/8-of-the-10-best-selling-games-of-the-decade-were-call-of-duty

7 of the 10 best-selling games of the decade were Call of Duty

GTAV unsurprisingly number one, RDR2 and Minecraft also in there. No numbers on Fortnite, cos you can’t buy it, though i’d hazard for revenue and times downloaded it’s feature in there.

These are just the games that the generalist audience play most, along with FIFA and so on.

Edit: giving up with the url tags, my phone won’t play ball

Not disputing the facts, but that list seems to be the US and while it probably would be similarly reflected, I think they are a special case. They love them guns.

Given that the US is still the biggest games market, that may be the single reason why realistic military shooters are dominating.

Kow

Splatoon isn't an fps, it's third person. There have been plenty of those over the years. I think the fps is a distinct idea, where you are more personally responsible for what you do than any in-game avatar. With GTA etc you can say, well I'm not doing it, it's that guy.

drumbeg

As a parent, I wouldn't let my 7 year old daughter play/watch any FPS content. I try not to normalise violence. Same goes for TV/Movies.

Having said that, I watched pretty much whatever I wanted as a kid (watching Robocop aged 8/9 etc) and as of yet I haven't shot anyone.

davyK

Kow wrote:

Splatoon isn't an fps, it's third person. There have been plenty of those over the years. I think the fps is a distinct idea, where you are more personally responsible for what you do than any in-game avatar. With GTA etc you can say, well I'm not doing it, it's that guy.

Fair enough. I don't really get that distinction but I'm not really into the running around shooting thing - first person or third. I get what you say though. The aiming is different too. Been a long time since I played Quake 2 on the office LAN.

Yossarian

I like shooting things. It’s not all I like in videogames, but it is a lot of fun.

I’m also much more likely to be interested in an M rated game than an E rated one, in much the same way as I’m more likely to be interested in an 18 rated film than a U.

There’s a market for violent games in the same way as there’s a market for violence in all media. There’s also a market for media without violence in it, and that’s being addressed too.

Diluted Dante

Tempy wrote:

www.pcgamer.com/uk/amp/8-of-the-10-best-selling-games-of-the-decade-were-call-of-duty

7 of the 10 best-selling games of the decade were Call of Duty

The uk list is a little different, dominated instead by FIFA. GTA V still top mind, with Minecraft at 3 and only 3 CoD games rounding it out.

Tempy

@dave yeah it’s hard to get accurate sourced non-US data because groups like the NPD don’t make this stuff known easily.

According to wiki, the top 10 highest grossing games as of December 2019 are

Dungeon Fighter Online (F2P, PC)
CrossFire (PC/Mobile)
League of Legends (PC)
Monster Strike (Mobile)
Puzzle & Dragons (Mobile)
Honor of Kings/Arena of Valor (Mobile)
World of Warcraft (PC)
Clash of Clans (Mobile)
Grand Theft Auto Online (Various)
Candy Crush Saga (Mobile)

Whereas by units shifted, the top ten is

Minecraft
GTAV
PUBG
Mario Kart 8
Skyrim
Diablo III
Terraria
COD: MW3
RDR2
COD: Black Ops

I think it paints an interesting picture of the way markets are dominated by different things and how selling a lot doesn’t mean you have as pervasive a spread as three games owned by TenCent who rake in untold billions a year. FPS are still prevalent, but CoD has been a marketing powerhouse since Modern Warfare and has always sold gangbusters.

Tempy

Diluted Dante wrote:

Tempy wrote:

www.pcgamer.com/uk/amp/8-of-the-10-best-selling-games-of-the-decade-were-call-of-duty

7 of the 10 best-selling games of the decade were Call of Duty

The uk list is a little different, dominated instead by FIFA. GTA V still top mind, with Minecraft at 3 and only 3 CoD games rounding it out.

Cheers Dante, not surprised by FIFA being huge, imagine the same can be said for most of Europe. I just tried to grab an accurate one and the NPD report was in a bunch of places

I am hampered by being stuck on my phone right now, typing up that list from Wiki was a fucking nightmare

Lord_Griff

I wish all games had FP, only way to achieve proper immersion.

Tempy

Anyway I think we’re in one of the richest periods of game development we’ve ever known, the medium has come on leaps and bounds and people are doing lots of interesting stuff, but shooting is just a fucking great verb to hang a game off cos it feels so good when it’s done right.

My main fear is the slow homogenisation of everything, the increased cost and sustainability issues for indie studios these days, the flaws in systems like Steam, the EGS, and GamePass, and the overall conglomeration of IPs and titles under massive brands like Tencent and Activision.

Art, Films, TV, Books, Comics, Music, Games: it all falls to the purity argument at some point, but these carnal things are inherent in our artistic output as a species. Conflict is an easy thing to get mileage from.

afgavinstan

That Neon White that got revealed yesterday is a damn fine looking fps experience, fwiw.

b0r1s

It’s not so much outright shooting it’s scenes such as torture and cruelty that I think are more worrying. Look at the scene they trailered in the Last of Us Part II where they used the hammer on the girl.

Compare that with pew pew head pops in Destiny and it’s clear that the format doesn’t necessarily determine the psychological impact on people.

Roujin

Street Fighter didn't turn kids into violent thugs.

NWA didn't turn kids into violent thugs.

The Punisher comics didn't turn kids into violent thugs.

Carmageddon didn't encourage people to mow down pedestrians or ram other road users.

Dungeons and Dragons did not turn kids into satan worshippers.

Breaking Bad didn't turn people into drug dealers.

Rock and Roll did not morally corrupt the youth of the 50's and 60's...wait.

I don't think that violent videogames in and of themselves are dangerous, or rather, they are no more harmful than any other form of violent media consumed for entertainment. However I do think that some kids can be affected by all kinds of violent media, but I would imagine that has to be a tiny minority of kids and happening in conjunction with other issues in their lives, let alone parents not having the wherewithall to at least try and keep an eye on what they are playing (I know that's hard, I'm not minimising the difficulty in that at all) and I do think that is frequently something certain parts of the media like to blow out of all proportion.

What's actually harmful in games these days is the fucking gambling on lootboxes and stuff with actual money, designed to just slowly leech money out of players over time, the sooner that shit gets clamped down on the better, although I wonder how the UK will handle it now that we are out of the EU and their classifications on this stuff won't apply to us anymore.

acemuzzy

As I've said before, to much disdain, FPS is approximately the worst genre

stonechalice

That's approximately a bad take.

I've gone right off FPS games though. Destiny is still about the only game that manages to make moving about any fun alongside CoD and Apex I suppose. FPS games like Bioshock and Cyberpunk just revolt me as soon as I start moving about. Having to aim at stuff to pick it up feels so clunky and just the general camera movement is so bad. There needs to be a genre rejig for sure.

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