Halo, is it me you're looking for? - The Bear and Badger

Dan_Dare

bee tea dubs, guys, I'm getting internet at home soon so I should be able to do an OP update next week. If there's any particulars you'd like me to add, pm me and I'll see that it's included.

fullspectrum

As someone with more interest in competitive game design than halo specifically, a slower BR kill time seems to appeal.

If I practice enough to get that down every time it's raised an unnecessary barrier that's going to put off newcomers who come late.

JRPC

Nick wrote:

As someone with more interest in competitive game design than halo specifically, a slower BR kill time seems to appeal. If I practice enough to get that down every time it's raised an unnecessary barrier that's going to put off newcomers who come late.

Sic him, Knight! Sic him!

Fentonizer

@Nick The thing is, after a point, it's not really about who is the best shot. Kill times need to be low to stop stupid plays like running out into the middle of the map.

Nothing more infuriating than not being able to finish off a guy who has made a really bad mistake in map-movement,Â purelyÂ because my weapon shoots slowly or he has loads of health.

There is an ideal middle ground between the COD "I've seen you, so you die." and the slow, bloom fest that turns into luck, whereby the player who has better map position is more likely to win the bout, but better shooting can give you the upper hand in an otherwise bad situation.

The problem in Reach, because kill times are so high, it's too easy to make the decision on bail on a losing fight, because it will, 9 times out of 10, save your hide, regardless of the bad position you were in to begin with.

Anyway, Knight will tell you why I'm wrong, below.

fullspectrum

I liked the framing within a fighter context, whatever he says.

Diluted Dante

Well, it will mention MLG, so will that do?

Facewon

Dan_Dare wrote:

Personally I fucking hated Halo 2's campaign - a lot of good ideas I think but bogged down by some serious bullshit and terrible testing.

Yeah, but this is where we get back to highs and lows vs average the whole way through. H2 is uneven and unfinished as all fuck as a campaign, but the first couple of levels and Delta halo make it worth the price of admission. Delta halo is fucking incredible. And while the hanger and sniper alley can be grating, I'll slip in a DS reference. The archers in DS were put in as a talking point, as a thing for players to remember. it's all well and good to smooth the ride out, but you risk leaving nothing memorable. I couldn't get past the hanger on legendary for ages, and didn't even know about the noob combo, then I sussed 'em both, and eventually had the room pretty dialed. Smashing something so hard is satisfying. Reach fails to recreate that a lot of the time.

StrayAndroid

For my all time favourite campaign experience it has to be Halo 3 legendary with Tree, Jimmy and I think it was Mod or Hulka. Â Went through the whole thing end to end...Tszavo highway...scarabs etc etc...god that was a phenominal evening....plus Jimmy gave us his gravy recipe.

Blue Swirl

Djornson wrote:

The Pit is best map evvarrrrrrrr

+1

Closely followed by Valhalla. I could play Team BRs on Pit and Valhalla for the rest of time.

Blue Swirl

Details surface on the deal between Bungie and Activision:

Basically, they're to produce four "sci-fantasy" action games, spaced two years apart, with four downloadable titles to go inbetween. They're also allowed to work on a new Marathon.

Warning: the comments on this video will make you despair for the future of humanity.

Facewon

Perhaps you could put that in the thread about it.

JRPC

Up to 5% of workforce working on a new Marathon game!?

It's news like that which makes 2 years of anticipation really worth it.

Blue Swirl

Facewon wrote:

Perhaps you could put that in the thread about it.

I thought this was the thread about Bungie stuff?

Mod74

Fentonizer wrote:

@Nick The thing is, after a point, it's not really about who is the best shot. Kill times need to be low to stop stupid plays like running out into the middle of the map. Nothing more infuriating than not being able to finish off a guy who has made a really bad mistake in map-movement,Â purelyÂ because my weapon shoots slowly or he has loads of health. There is an ideal middle ground between the COD "I've seen you, so you die." and the slow, bloom fest that turns into luck, whereby the player who has better map position is more likely to win the bout, but better shooting can give you the upper hand in an otherwise bad situation. The problem in Reach, because kill times are so high, it's too easy to make the decision on bail on a losing fight, because it will, 9 times out of 10, save your hide, regardless of the bad position you were in to begin with. Anyway, Knight will tell you why I'm wrong, below.

I've long thought the kill times in Halo were ridiculous. You should be able to punish someone instantly if you get the drop on them not watch them bunny hop into safety.

Yes the kill times in COD are too low, but if I've got to put more than a clips worth of bullets into a players body to kill them it takes away a big part of how I like to play shooters. i.e. moving through a map and tracking a player.

Yeah yeah, argue about Halo being better because you need to pull off headshots all you like but I don't like that model and I don't think it's accessible to the general public. Head shots have ruined FPS games.

If your spawn weapon can't kill another player in one clip and you need to run in for a melee to finish them it's not a shooter anymore.

I note the "weapon" Knight has got the third amount of kills with is still the melee.

Dan_Dare

Thing is, you can kill incredibly quickly in Halo - grenades followed by a single shot to the head (after the 'pop') can kill in less than a second. It's at mid range where you can't really rely on explosives or energy weapons that kill times get longer and harder to balance.

tigersgogrrr

Mod74 wrote:

Â Yeah yeah, argue about Halo being better because you need to pull off headshots all you like but I don't like that model and I don't think it's accessible to the general public. Head shots have ruined FPS games. If your spawn weapon can't kill another player in one clip and you need to run in for a melee to finish them it's not a shooter anymore. I note the "weapon" Knight has got the third amount of kills with is still the melee.

No no no NO NO NOÂ NO NO.

How have headshots ruined FPS games? How many FPS games genuinelyÂ rely on headshots, compared to those where your foes drop in a seconds no matter where you shoot them? As for bringing up melee kills, I'm pretty sure this was all explained to you, and explained to you multiple times, over on the old forum. If you don't like CQC where you generally get a handful of melee kills per game, you won't like Halo. Combat has always been based around the trinity of weapon, grenade, melee.

All the spawn weapons can kill someone in a single clip, FWIW.

Nexx

Mod was blatantly baiting...

tigerswiftly wrote:

All the spawn weapons can kill someone in a single clip, FWIW.

Someone should tell Shyam tbh.

tigersgogrrr

Nexx wrote:

Mod was blatantly baiting...

Does that mean I should have used bigger text?Â

Anyway, I've tried telling Shyam. He won't bloody listen.

Vastik

Dan_Dare wrote:

Thing is, you can kill incredibly quickly in Halo - grenades followed by a single shot to the head (after the 'pop') can kill in less than a second.

Or replace grenade with a charged shot of a plasma pistol...

Vastik

Mod74 wrote:

I've long thought the kill times in Halo were ridiculous. You should be able to punish someone instantly if you get the drop on them not watch them bunny hop into safety.

This is one of the reasons I love Halo â€“ you've always got a chance to fight back or survive. Shields give you the time to improvise, mix things up a little, as opposed to CoD's spot em and drop em approach.

Mod74

I'm not baiting, I'd love to play more of Halo MP because the system and support is fantastic.

I just don't like the way it's balanced.

Djornson

It's balanced so that the better fighter usually wins, as opposed to the one who knows the map best like in COD. If you don't like that then, well, fair enough. Having said that it does piss me off how long it takes to kill people, was much quicker in Halo 1. Then anniversary came out and it pissed me off cos i died so fast cos everybody better than me. There is no pleasing me.

Mod74

Djornson wrote:

It's balanced so that the better fighter usually wins, as opposed to the one who knows the map best like in COD.

If you like. To me it always seemed like whoever knew the map best won because they know where the best weapons are and don't have to use the starting pea shooter.

Is there a game type where you start with that fancy headshot rifle? Because 53% of Knights kills have come from it and 1% from the pea shooter.

A cynic might suggest he grabs that then dominates.

Dan_Dare

Almost every game type, yes. :-)

Djornson

Mod74 wrote:

It's balanced so that the better fighter usually wins, as opposed to the one who knows the map best like in COD.

If you like. To me it always seemed like whoever knew the map best won because they know where the best weapons are and don't have to use the starting pea shooter.

True to a point. That's why i always try to play Team BR's or whatever it's called in Reach where everybody starts with the good weapon. Even then map knowledge (when done as a team) plays some part, just not all in my opinion.

Mod74

Dan_Dare wrote:

Almost every game type, yes.

And there's my lack of knowledge writ large.

Every time I've played I've started with the pea shooter or the Covenant equivalent.

Diluted Dante

Are you on about the DMR? There are a ton of playlists where you start with it. 51% of his deaths have come from it too, which hardly sounds like he's dominating with it. It sounds to me more like everyone just uses it.

My top kills is the Pistol because I play a lot of Anniversary. But my second is the DMR. And I haven't got a fucking clue where anything is other than on Anniversary.

Also, I was able to be reasonably competitive in H3 using the AR for the most part. The plasma's and frags were third and sixth in my most used weapons list and melee was top probably helps explain this.

Diluted Dante

Oh, if you all get a Cortana avatar item when you pre-order H4, you have me to thank.

Shyam39

FYI, I have a different philosophy when it comes to ammo use. It's all Knight's fault.Â

@Mod74

Pea-shooter or not, you just have to Believe!

Knight

*Puts elitest hat on*

Not this again 'mod. I see you're abusing statistics again too. Melee may be my 3rd highest weapon of choice but what % of my kills comes from melee compared to weapons or grenades? Also, I play MLG the vast majority of the time and those settings hardly have any weapons available to pick up. Your problem with Halo isn't the game balance, it's that you don't know what you're doing. Go away and learn how to play, come back, and then we can have a discussion about kill times. Don't mean to be elitest and all that jazz but if you're going to make statements about Halo's game design you have to actually understand Halo's game design, and you clearly don't at the moment

Nick, you may be interested in competitive game design but you obviously don't understand competitive Halodesign if you want slower kill times.

Howdy, Stranger!

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