Tell me what cloud computing is. - The Bear and Badger

Diluted Dante

Moto70 wrote:

Is there a chance of getting the forum back on track and getting the 'cloud computing' to it's own thread or into the PS4/Xbox One thread?

Here we are then. Microsoft are banging on about the INFINITE POWER OF THE CLOUD. This is my current understanding of it:

As Yoss pointed out, this seems a foolhardy plan because when it rains your servers will crash. To Earth. So there may be another explanation, which I would like to ask those in the know to share with us.

adkm1979

Seriously?

Diluted Dante

Obviously not. But I still don't really know what it means. My understanding is that it means different things at different times. So what specifically are Microsoft meaning by it.

adkm1979

Just server side processing, surely. Or have I missed something?

monkey

The cloud's just a meaningless buzz term. They've just got a chunk of servers they're making available. Same as Steam or PSN or their 360 ones.

It's the same stuff that they roll out to corporate clients so they should be pretty good.

That's it.

Edit: It does sound like they've got a lot of them. But I don't know what they've got currently so any number is meaningless.

Double Edit: They need / want a load of servers to dish up all the downloads and content they want to feed you. They've made a marketing virtue of that increased capacity they've invested in.

Now that's it.

g.man

I think it's something to do with this...

probably

g.man

Sasukekun

g.man wrote:

I think it's something to do with this... probably g.man

That has to be shopped.

b0r1s

Not really, you're confusing cloud storage. E.g. iTunes Match, Dropbox etc, that lets you store your files and access them in lots of different places, with cloud computing, that uses those servers for additional processing. A good example that I am familiar with would be for 3d rendering, you improve and reduce rendering times by spreading intensive processes across those servers.

How this will impact on gaming, I'm not sure, maybe to do things like have assets preloaded in the background to reduce the necessity to load levels etc would be one immediate benefit.

monkey

b0r1s wrote:

Not really, you're confusing cloud storage. E.g. iTunes Match, Dropbox etc, that lets you store your files and access them in lots of different places, with cloud computing, that uses those servers for additional processing.

Who is?

adkm1979

You is.

b0r1s

I was talking about your point about 360, PSN etc, they are just storage servers, listening the marketing speak from MS we will be having new "experiences" due to the power of the cloud.

monkey

adkm1979 wrote:

You is.

Me is?

Diluted Dante

adkm1979 wrote:

Just server side processing, surely. Or have I missed something?

Of what though?

b0r1s wrote:

A good example that I am familiar with would be for 3d rendering, you improve and reduce rendering times by spreading intensive processes across those servers. How this will impact on gaming, I'm not sure, maybe to do things like have assets preloaded in the background to reduce the necessity to load levels etc would be one immediate benefit.

Ah right. How dependent is this on broadband speeds?

Moto70

Would it be possible with 'the power of the cloud' to finally give me what I wanted in CoD. Especially now I've stopped playing it.

Procedurally generated maps. The game can have its themes for maps (Article, Urban, Jungle, etc) but then 'the power of the cloud' bangs out a map, the raw data is d/l and the XB1 generates the map from that.

It would certainly make S&D and the like much more tactical.

adkm1979

Diluted Dante wrote:

adkm1979 wrote:

Just server side processing, surely. Or have I missed something?

Of what though?

Whatever. On current, traditional consoles the data is read off the disc, the box does all its computering, your game appears on screen. With OnLive, your box accesses a powerful box someplace else, which does all the computering, and sends a picture back to your box, which you react to and it sends your inputs back to the big powerful computer. The One, as I understand it, will attempt a hybrid approach.

mk64

Onlive

Sasukekun

Moto70 wrote:

Would it be possible with 'the power of the cloud' to finally give me what I wanted in CoD. Especially now I've stopped playing it. Procedurally generated maps. The game can have its themes for maps (Article, Urban, Jungle, etc) but then 'the power of the cloud' bangs out a map, the raw data is d/l and the XB1 generates the map from that. It would certainly make S&D and the like much more tactical.

I don't think so. Not at the point we're at

JMW

Moto70 wrote:

Would it be possible with 'the power of the cloud' to finally give me what I wanted in CoD. Especially now I've stopped playing it. Procedurally generated maps. The game can have its themes for maps (Article, Urban, Jungle, etc) but then 'the power of the cloud' bangs out a map, the raw data is d/l and the XB1 generates the map from that. It would certainly make S&D and the like much more tactical.

It has to have a fall back position, for when the connection drops. So you'd need something there, perhaps the cloud fills in more detail if it can.

monkey

b0r1s wrote:

I was talking about your point about 360, PSN etc, they are just storage servers, listening the marketing speak from MS we will be having new "experiences" due to the power of the cloud.

Ah ok right. I wasn't but my initial ramble is admittedly all over the place.

b0r1s

Diluted Dante wrote:

Ah right. How dependent is this on broadband speeds?

Depends, I guess, I what the dev chooses to do with it. If your local copy of the game has all the assets, they could reference those items from the cloud, and change levels etc, and that wouldn't use too much bandwidth - they're supply 3d co-ordinates, maybe some environmental rules, the rest would be handled by the installed game.

At the other end of the scale we have...

mk64 wrote:

Onlive

This is doing all the processing, but the big hit for Onlive is also piping over the HD video stream, picking up the input, sending it back and then sending back the response. I've got the Onlive console and it's amazing it works at all really, not great for FPS' or driving games, and I've got fast broadband, but good enough for Batman etc.

Diluted Dante

So basically, they can choose to offload certain tasks, but have free choice of what those might be? Is it better suited to certain things over others?

Is there any indication from any dev so far as to what they will be using the cloud for with Xbox One?

RamSteelwood

Sasukekun wrote:

Moto70 wrote:

Would it be possible with 'the power of the cloud' to finally give me what I wanted in CoD. Especially now I've stopped playing it. Procedurally generated maps. The game can have its themes for maps (Article, Urban, Jungle, etc) but then 'the power of the cloud' bangs out a map, the raw data is d/l and the XB1 generates the map from that. It would certainly make S&D and the like much more tactical.

I don't think so. Not at the point we're at

It could... But so could your Xbox.... The problem is that procedurally generated levels like that would generally be shit.... if you had the massively complex algorithms required to generate good levels, it could be something deferred to cloud level to do all the calculations quicker than a single box... I'm not sure how likely or practical it would be to happen, but it's probably as good an idea as I've heard for 'the cloud' in an actual game term.... Online COD or whatever where each level is new to everyone each time would be interesting....

RamSteelwood

Diluted Dante wrote:

So basically, they can choose to offload certain tasks, but have free choice of what those might be? Is it better suited to certain things over others? Is there any indication from any dev so far as to what they will be using the cloud for with Xbox One?

There's going to be lag no matter how quick your broadband, so I don't see how it can be used in a real-time action game to do anything on the fly... But you could play chess against an AI machine that would shit on big blue....

Moto70

RamSteelwood wrote:

Sasukekun wrote:

Moto70 wrote:

Would it be possible with 'the power of the cloud' to finally give me what I wanted in CoD. Especially now I've stopped playing it. Procedurally generated maps. The game can have its themes for maps (Article, Urban, Jungle, etc) but then 'the power of the cloud' bangs out a map, the raw data is d/l and the XB1 generates the map from that. It would certainly make S&D and the like much more tactical.

I don't think so. Not at the point we're at

It could... But so could your Xbox.... The problem is that procedurally generated levels like that would generally be shit.... if you had the massively complex algorithms required to generate good levels, it could be something deferred to cloud level to do all the calculations quicker than a single box... I'm not sure how likely or practical it would be to happen, but it's probably as good an idea as I've heard for 'the cloud' in an actual game term.... Online COD or whatever where each level is new to everyone each time would be interesting....

I just thought the cloud would be better suited to generating one map for 32 consoles than 32 consoles all trying to make exactly the same map.

Moto70

It could apply to many things, a city in a MMO survival game, a racetrack in Forza. Even campaign missions, imagine us all having a different solo experience!

pantyfire

Moto70 wrote:

RamSteelwood wrote:

Sasukekun wrote:

Moto70 wrote:

Would it be possible with 'the power of the cloud' to finally give me what I wanted in CoD. Especially now I've stopped playing it. Procedurally generated maps. The game can have its themes for maps (Article, Urban, Jungle, etc) but then 'the power of the cloud' bangs out a map, the raw data is d/l and the XB1 generates the map from that. It would certainly make S&D and the like much more tactical.

I don't think so. Not at the point we're at

It could... But so could your Xbox.... The problem is that procedurally generated levels like that would generally be shit.... if you had the massively complex algorithms required to generate good levels, it could be something deferred to cloud level to do all the calculations quicker than a single box... I'm not sure how likely or practical it would be to happen, but it's probably as good an idea as I've heard for 'the cloud' in an actual game term.... Online COD or whatever where each level is new to everyone each time would be interesting....

I just thought the cloud would be better suited to generating one map for 32 consoles than 32 consoles all trying to make exactly the same map.

I guess it's technically possible but a new map every time would actually be a bit pooh. The first time you play a map. Is usually confusing, they tend to get good only when you get used to them.

I suppose moving some elements or the odd corridor could work.

Moto70

pantyfire wrote:

I guess it's technically possible but a new map every time would actually be a bit pooh. The first time you play a map. Is usually confusing, they tend to get good only when you get used to them. I suppose moving some elements or the odd corridor could work.

I like tactical play.

Can you imagine a game like Black Hawk Down where you have to rescue downed pilots, the rescue team having limited intel on a procedurally generated map while the hostile team have access to a map with weapons caches etc already marked on it? I'm talking hour long matches as opposed to the 2 min twitch-fests of CoD.

RamSteelwood

Moto70 wrote:

Would it be possible with 'the power of the cloud' to finally give me what I wanted in CoD. Especially now I've stopped playing it. Procedurally generated maps. The game can have its themes for maps (Article, Urban, Jungle, etc) but then 'the power of the cloud' bangs out a map, the raw data is d/l and the XB1 generates the map from that. It would certainly make S&D and the like much more tactical.

I don't think so. Not at the point we're at

It could... But so could your Xbox.... The problem is that procedurally generated levels like that would generally be shit.... if you had the massively complex algorithms required to generate good levels, it could be something deferred to cloud level to do all the calculations quicker than a single box... I'm not sure how likely or practical it would be to happen, but it's probably as good an idea as I've heard for 'the cloud' in an actual game term.... Online COD or whatever where each level is new to everyone each time would be interesting....

I just thought the cloud would be better suited to generating one map for 32 consoles than 32 consoles all trying to make exactly the same map.

It would, i was just making the point the cloud isn't magic.... But it could do something complex quicker...
Think of it like when u start a game like footy manager, when u start u wait a couple of minutes while it generates the databases for your game... If you upgraded your processor in your pc, then started a new game, that process should be quicker because your PC is more powerful.... The cloud would be like getting a more powerful machine to create your game, then it would send the save file back to you... the hope is that the time it takes to send data between you and the cloud is offset by the time saved by it doing the calculation

Edit! Lol at auto complete typos! Silly tablet!

dynamiteReady

Cloud computing, is just like Sephiroth computing without a silly haircut, or genocidal tendencies...

The fuck yall' think it was, eh?

RamSteelwood

Moto70 wrote:

I guess it's technically possible but a new map every time would actually be a bit pooh. The first time you play a map. Is usually confusing, they tend to get good only when you get used to them. I suppose moving some elements or the odd corridor could work.

I like tactical play. Can you imagine a game like Black Hawk Down where you have to rescue downed pilots, the rescue team having limited intel on a procedurally generated map while the hostile team have access to a map with weapons caches etc already marked on it? I'm talking hour long matches as opposed to the 2 min twitch-fests of CoD.

I like it... I don't really play mp fps, for two main reasons:
A. I'm shit at them
B. I don't have time to play enough to memorise all the maps, which puts me at a disadvantage and reinforces point A

New maps would level the playing field a bit....

b0r1s

Ok, another area where it would actually could be massively impressive, would be if a game company developed an improved intelligence routine for RPG NPC's. This system could learn from all the various inputs from the responses from players earlier on in the game, pool all that gamer data to make smarter NPC's.

I know a little bit about Google, and that's what it's algorithm is doing. Collecting information from searchers, looking for patterns, and trying to give answers (results) based on the consensus of those searches. It is intelligent enough to understand an article is about Star Trek, for example, even if those words aren't in that article, but the article mentions 'enterprise' 'Kirk' and 'phaser'.

These types of system can learn and improve over time. Sounds like Skynet :-)

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