Misogyny and other gender issues. - The Bear and Badger

Brooks

Mouldywarp wrote:

I'm at a point where I don't like the idea of women having to have predefined roles but at the same time I really like looking at boobs. So equality is good and boobs are also good. Is thisÂ misogynistic?

It's about nuance in the end - boobfandom has to be only an element in a more complex appreciation of women, rather than something we sense as being The Main Draw. Strictly that goes for any member of the species. We cannot especially help having sex organs without surgery/horrible accidents.

The 'powerlessness' meme is probably more important to address, as it runs under a lot of others.

Bollockoff

I'm pretty sure that 99% of commenters eschewing such women hating comments are people who are purposefully trying to wind people up and pretending to take it as seriously as possible. Such is the nature of the internet.

They probably love their mums.

Tempy

Biologically you are going to recognise certain elements of people first. I'm not sure you can really fully recondition yourself otherwise unless you are devoting a vast amount of time towards that pursuit. Everyone also has their only personal tastes and I'm pretty sure whilst a lot of men are happy to scroll through the NSFW pages of imgur for boobs, the first thing they are going to really appreciate a woman for is how they get on. Nice boobs, like a nice arse, are merely a bonus.

S'usually all in the face anyway, which is a more acurate display of personality y'know, hence everything.

Fentonizer

There's a fine line between knowing that as a cis-gendered man you like the way women look and using these bio-truths as justification for being a creep.

Bollockoff

I could watch Olivia Wilde pop facial spots all day and I wouldn't complain.

Brooks

Well I don't think it's beyond the powers of many to self-innoculate themselves against being creeps, though more guidance couldn't hurt.

Tempy

@brooks: I'm talking about fully changing the way your brain automatically notices bust and hips due to all our genetic past, not just not being a creep by starting at every womans tits openly in public

@Fenton: Yes, also see: respecting slighly older tubby male manager vs. not respecting slighlty older tubby female manager.

Brooks

Bollockoff wrote:

I could watch Olivia Wilde pop facial spots all day and I wouldn't complain.

Check the picture thread for this fascinating blog I did find...

Brooks

Temps I don't dispute that - again, definition of baselines is important.

Both managers should be dissed for being NHS-resource-squandering tubsters.

Tempy

I possibly misread your intent then, no bother.

RamSteelwood

Tempy wrote:

@brooks: I'm talking about fully changing the way your brain automatically notices bust and hips due to all our genetic past, not just not being a creep by starting at every womans tits openly in public @Fenton: Yes, also see: respecting slighly older tubby male manager vs. not respecting slighlty older tubby female manager.

My manager is a slightly older tubby female, and i have lots of respect for her (except for calling her 'tubby' here obviously)...so do I win the thread?

Rev

Sasukekun wrote:

revelthedog wrote:

Roujin wrote:

Does your wife watch any form of reality TV Revel?

Yes she does. Â And she hasn't seen Bayonetta in action but I know that she wouldn't agree with it.Â Just from the point that it doesn't add anything to the game unless you are a 14 year old boy. The difference with games is the interactive element. In Bayonetta her outfit is disappearing because of some button I have pressed. I'm making the decision to attack/ kick / shoot / knife that person.Â she's fine with Dark Souls because of the Fantasy Element. She actually was surprised you could be a female character. Â I guess its partly because she deals with real victims of domestic abuse that she finds the glorifying of it to be quite frankly tasteless and in many ways pointless. She has always wondered why when the games industry have such a blank canvas of creativity, the next big thing is always about running around killing things.

XTC_NRG_4_DARKRAVER wrote:

I wouldn't have married someone so judgemental, frankly. Especially over something as pointless as video games. I mean, who gives a fuck what goes on. They're just a dumb passtime.

I'm happy that she has an opinion on it and that it is something she has tried to understand, especially since both my kids like playing games and she has tried to get involved. Â I don't want my gaming to be something that I have to sit in a separate room to do, or wait until she has gone to bed or has fallen asleep. I don't appreciate what you said either. There was no need for it. By all means call me all the names under the sun, but don't disrespect my wife.

In essence my wife is the same. Thinks games are for kids and not a valid form of entertainment for adults, but will happily watch 'Housewives of xxxx' or 'The Only way is Essex'. She was however, intrigued by Heavy Rain and LA Noire, but she got bored watching pretty quickly and gave up on their stories after a while.

when she saw Journey and even Flower she was genuinely captivated by the look of the games, and also surprised by her own emotional response. She found the fact that I was playing with someone I couldn't speak toÂ intriguing.

Â

JonB wrote:

-

Nah its more /

Brooks

You're definitely taking part.

Bollockoff

I luv my mum an ny1 wat sayz ufferwize wil get a smak in da face.

Tempy

I go so far as to identify myself as a feminist because I believe in that shit. Although Greer's earlier claims that women don't enjoy sex, they merely endure it, and that men just fucking hate women, well they make me lol a little bit.

In fact, feminism in it's OG form and on its 'second wave' or whatever is pretty insufferable at times. Like anything, it demands tact and balance, something outraged people struggle with at times.

Roujin

No, stop objectifying her by assigning an adjective to her physical appearance.

EDIT: @Ramsteelplank

Mouldywarp

Biologically, a male's sexual attraction is likely to be more superficial than a woman's as he can fuck and fuck off, so to speak. If a female is impregnated then she has to invest (in humans) 9 months of her time and energy into the child before it's even born. Therefore in nature you see differing sexualÂ strategies in males and females. For example, mating rituals that allow the female to test how dedicated the male is. Once she is satisfied he has invested enough in her to not make it worth his while to fuck off straight after sex she agrees to copulate.

This is all from the perspective of genetics rather than ethics, but these things will still influence us despite our ability to override ourÂ geneticÂ pre-programming.

Tempy

I seriously thought this was happening for a minute:

She has to invest in humans (to feed her young through winter)

Bollockoff

Obviously devouring the male of your species after impregnation is the best policy.

Tempy

Yeah exactly, fucking men and all their shit.

Fentonizer

Clearly there's some bad apples in the feminism scene. You could say the same about any movement, really. PETA. Greenpeace aren't squeaky clean, etc.

Feminism as a whole gets such a bad rap though, that people often kitchen/sandwich joke on reaction, like the whole idea of equality for women is laughable or worse still, a non-issue anymore.

Dark Soldier

Bollockoff wrote:

I luv my mum an ny1 wat sayz ufferwize wil get a smak in da face.

Brooks

Oddly enough I think the first Tomb Raider actually passes the Bechdel test.

Tempy

Yeah, it does get a bad rap and it shouldn't. Although fairly simplistic and over sentimental, Caitlin Moran's How To Be A Woman should be required reading for all adolescents because it at least highlights that the whole scene isn't disgusted with men and also she talks about wanking and sex fantasies and she is genuinely funny.

Fentonizer

Mouldywarp wrote:

Biologically, a male's sexual attraction is likely to be more superficial than a woman's as he can fuck and fuck off, so to speak. If a female is impregnated then she has to invest (in humans) 9 months of her time and energy into the child before it's even born. Therefore in nature you see differing sexualÂ strategies in males and females. For example, mating rituals that allow the female to test how dedicated the male is. Once she is satisfied he has invested enough in her to not make it worth his while to fuck off straight after sex she agrees to copulate.

This is all from the perspective of genetics rather than ethics, but these things will still influence us despite our ability to override ourÂ geneticÂ pre-programming.

Mammals != all life ever.

Rev

Tempy wrote:

Yeah exactly, fucking men and all their shit.

is it thursday already?

djchump

Tempy wrote:

OK Chump, feel bad for calling Fenton an idiot now. UNLESS:

RamSteelwood wrote:

yeah, it's the problem when making a knowing, ironic joke on the internet, that if you shower it with winks and smilies it loses the effect, but if you don't then idiots will take it seriously.

I know he was joking in OP, but then he wasn't joking when he complained about people joking. Or maybe his complaint was a second-tier metajoke. In which case, I was joking about his joke about his joke, in a third-tier metametajoke. And now I'm joking about your joking (were you joking?) about my joking about his joking about his OP joke, which makes this a fifth-tier metametametametajoke, or another third-tier metametajoke, depending on whether you were joking or not.

RamSteelwood

Tempy wrote:

Yeah, it does get a bad rap and it shouldn't. Although fairly simplistic and over sentimental, Caitlin Moran's How To Be A Woman should be required reading for all adolescents because it at least highlights that the whole scene isn't disgusted with men and also she talks about wanking and sex fantasies and she is genuinely funny.

I opted to read Jilly Cooper instead, but for the same reasons (well apart from being funny)....i think that's why i'm so in touch with feminist issues too.

Tempy

djchump wrote:

Tempy wrote:

OK Chump, feel bad for calling Fenton an idiot now. UNLESS:

RamSteelwood wrote:

yeah, it's the problem when making a knowing, ironic joke on the internet, that if you shower it with winks and smilies it loses the effect, but if you don't then idiots will take it seriously.

I know he was joking in OP, but then he wasn't joking when he complained about people joking. Or maybe his complaint was a second-tier metajoke. In which case, I was joking about his joke about his joke, in a third-tier metametajoke. And now I'm joking about your joking (were you joking?) about my joking about his joking about his OP joke, which makes this a fifth-tier metametametametajoke, or another third-tier metametajoke, depending on whether you were joking or not.

Fentonizer

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