Misogyny and other gender issues. - The Bear and Badger

Coopers Green

*sigh*

That Pankhurst wench RUINED it for us, chaps.

Facewon

Brooks is still on point. Water is still wet. Thread needs some female input. Heck, forum needs more female input.

djchump

Natch, because games need more female input.Â
Full Circle.

Rev

Yup, Girls don't like games because they are made for guys and games makers don't make games for girls because only guys buy games. And because women don't rely on visual stimuli as much as guys do. apparently. chump will correct me If am wrong.

djchump

Can't remember where I saw this linked (might have even been this thread? not sure), but was interesting read:
http://gamingaswomen.com/posts/2012/05/geek-media-whats-with-all-the-rape/

Mouldywarp

Fentonizer wrote:

Mammals != all life ever.

What's your point? I know that there are species where the men are unable to exploit women in this way (usually live in water, I think) but we are not one of them.

Fentonizer

Mouldywarp wrote:

Biologically, a male's sexual attraction is likely to be more superficial than a woman's as he can fuck and fuck off, so to speak. If a female is impregnated then she has to invest (in humans) 9 months of her time and energy into the child before it's even born. Therefore in nature you see differing sexualÂ strategies in males and females. For example, mating rituals that allow the female to test how dedicated the male is. Once she is satisfied he has invested enough in her to not make it worth his while to fuck off straight after sex she agrees to copulate.

This is all from the perspective of genetics rather than ethics, but these things will still influence us despite our ability to override ourÂ geneticÂ pre-programming.

This whole post is bogus. That's my point.

Elegant tail feathers are apparently a test of male dedication. And, supposedly, in nature, females demand proof of this dedication, presumably though monkey engagement rings and lion baby showers. This makes the male think twice about leaving his monkey mortgage and monkey job in the big monkey city before just leaving his monkey life partner.

Brooks

Temps did you not think the pachyderm in the Moran's lounge was class/breeding. Thinking in particular about her defence of burlesque.

Mouldywarp

Sorry, I didn't mean all mating rituals. I meant some, for example male birds building nests and feeding females as a sign of dedication. This sort of ritual is merely one of many sexualÂ strategiesÂ a female can employ to avoid being exploited. I'm just trying to highlight the fact that the biological difference between men and women will influence how behaviours evolve. Just for the record, I'm not beingÂ deterministicÂ here; genetics isn't the be-all-and-end-all, but I'm arguing that it will have an influence and may even help explain why sexism exists in the firstÂ place.

Tempy

@Brooks I didn't think it was her natural class or breeding, although she does mask that fairly well so I'm not sure on the details, but her inherited class from living in London which is or was so fluid that it is the ideal climate for liberals and the like.

Some of her defences were weak and I'm not claiming it to be some kind of bible but it is clearly for younger women, and I think it applies equally for younger men. If anything, it shows that you can be whatever the fuck you want regardless of gender, including accidental late night TV star jounro cum twitter posting book author.

The ladies who have recommended it to me love parts and hate others, particularly the 'female grooming' part, that is a divider. The majority basically say that they prefer to shave regardless of what the feminista tell them and they certainly don't see it as patriarchal bullshit.

But yeah, a funny adequate primer that should be read by everyone.

In this humble oik's opinion.

Brooks

I liked it too, don't get me wrong. Just occured to me she seems to assume a level demographic playing field that isn't quite in existence yet, and has serious implications for a lot of her top tips.

The majority basically say that they prefer to shave regardless of what the feminista tell them and they certainly don't see it as patriarchal bullshit.

Did they suggest why.

Tempy

Looks neater and they basically just feel more comfortable with it. None of them go and get waxed though, this is just part of their personal tidying/grooming routine, wheras Moran suggests this makes you a woman on bended knee and that only by having a 70s porno thatch are you truly bucking the reigns of oppresion.

Now I guess you could construe the fact that they are all ok with this as some kind of mysoginistic victory in the mons front but I reckon if they're ok with it, it is ok. None of them are doing it to please others.

I found it distinctly at odds with her statement that sads women should wear nice undies because it is practitcally the same arguement, what is hair but natures own awkward AutumnWinter BC range?

Bollockoff

Who here actually shaves their body hair?

No shame. This is the internet and you can always change your real name if it's known.

Brooks

Looks neater and they basically just feel more comfortable with it.

This is the bit that begs further dissection, if any. Identification of where their aesthetic benchmarks are coming from etc.

I mean the mechanics of disgust/distaste are pretty fascinating whatever the arena.

Mod74

This Moran woman sounds like a right nightmare.

Do you think it's because the kids called her moron in the playground?

No point me looking up whether that's her maiden name or married one, huh.

Brooks

I think they called her "fatty" iirc

Tempy

Brooks wrote:

Looks neater and they basically just feel more comfortable with it.

This is the bit that begs further dissection, if any. Identification of where their aesthetic benchmarks are coming from etc.

I mean the mechanics of disgust/distaste are pretty fascinating whatever the arena.

Aye, ok. I know someone who is willing to embelish on this so I will ask her.

I know what you're getting at. Would she have ever done it without it being suggested as the 'done thing' by her peers at the time and that would have only infiltrated their conscious by girls mags and boyfriends who watched porn, both of which are full of very Patriarchal view points.

Coopers Green

It's not like they get the 'bonus inch' when a bloke does it...

Brooks

Is Fass de-pubed in Prometheus, I haven't seen it yet.

Coopers Green

I haven't seen it either, unfortunately. That's what I get for having a horribly skewed work/life balance.

Brooks

Tempy wrote:

Brooks wrote:

Looks neater and they basically just feel more comfortable with it.

This is the bit that begs further dissection, if any. Identification of where their aesthetic benchmarks are coming from etc. I mean the mechanics of disgust/distaste are pretty fascinating whatever the arena.

Aye, ok. I know someone who is willing to embelish on this so I will ask her. I know what you're getting at. Would she have ever done it without it being suggested as the 'done thing' by her peers at the time and that would have only infiltrated their conscious by girls mags and boyfriends who watched porn, both of which are full of very Patriarchal view points.

No suggestion that shaving chicks should just quit, but someone needs to be a bit more proactive about creating the cultural spaces that reclaim it if not, cuz at the moment it's a bit untidy, unlike their pudendae.

ChattinWithChet

Lack of pubic hair is not aesthetically charming as a widespread movement, it's weird and creepy, clearly originates from porn stars wishing to 1) accentuate the size of the other bod's schlong and 2) cash in on the underage fetish. But shaving yourself in any area is a personal thing, and one's reasons for doing so may be apart from its origins as a popular movement. So have at it individuals. But pubic hair is a genuinely erotic expression of how awesome the 1970s were.

Tempy

I worry that if I put my hand in I will lose it

Fentonizer

I would suggest that a lot of women, especially younger women, would quip "ew that's gross" when confronted about maybe trying not grooming.

I think this is the crux of the matter. That literally thousands of years of patriarchy has left women feeling as if they absolutely must because it is their role in society to be "lady-like." That not doing so is simply not an option lest they lose an aspect of their femininity, even if said femininity is thrust upon them by a masculine ideal of what that should be.

So, yes, I'd wager that a lot of women would themselves be ok with grooming, but I don't outright dispute the notion that this is only because of pre-defined gender roles that society continues to purvey.

ChattinWithChet

@Tempy: Fear of the vagina is symptomatic of some pretty clear FEAR OF WOMEN jazz brah. : P

Tempy

I love the Vagina, but what if it isn't a muffro but in fact a tribble that has taken a nap on the mons THEN WHAT

@Fento: Whereas Moran suggests that by not doing it, only then shall you become feminine. Here is the crux of the matter, a statement you can make with your body that has origins in unsavoury areas and is accepted by the majority for possibly the wrong reasons, but the minority who overlap between closegroomers and feminists feel caught in a crossfire between wanting to do it and not betray the sister hood.

tigersgogrrr

Korean ladies have hazardous jungles down there, I hear.

ChattinWithChet

Pubic hair is the reason why cunnilingus is so enjoyable.

Brooks

Moreover, and this is what Moran fails to address, shaving/not shaving (and similar appearance treatments) have quickly become class signifiers, and those have their own batch of built-in sticking points and sources of aggression regardless of gender.
Shaving/plucking/trowelling the slap is now 'tacky'; you imagine being a TOWIE character and having a Moran pitch up and being all '70s bushes and bicycles and Dita Von Teese/Gaga genderplay and reading enlightening academics. However well intentioned, she's gon' get writ off as a snob before much else. It's a threat before it's a pattern of useful reform.

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