Billy wrote:for what it's worth i'm enjoying the debate here.
Let us know when one shows up.mistercrayon wrote:It's a Comfortable space for uncritical pro eu ers.
I'm not trolling or being obtuse, I just don't really give a fuck. I stand by everything I've said, even the stuff said in jest, even the comment about "spite vote".Funkstain wrote:Ah well that's a shame (CiT leaving the thread). I think that there is a bit of trolling / obtuseness about the points being made re: the make-up of the typical person who wants to vote out.
Yeah, I know, but I'm not trying to *get* anywhere. Call it apathy but I just don't give a fuck about politics anymore because there's piss all any of us can do beyond throw votes where we feel. Even if I figured I do care enough to completely change my life, try to become an MP and try to get into a position of influence and try to make an iota of a difference, it'd amount to fuck all of fuck all. We'd still be bombing foreign parts then demonising the civilians fleeing the horror and slaughter.Funkstain wrote:Whether you think they're idiots or misguided or whatever, dismissing their views gets you nowhere,
For sure, but that's politics in general right now (at least what I see of it in the UK) - scaremongering FUD on all sides, because fear is an easy sell and self-perpetuates.Funkstain wrote:and the other point that the pro-EU campaign runners are scaremongering fuck wits, stands absolute.
Funkstain wrote:An interesting point came up earlier re: the demonisation of Turkey's acceptance into the "club". I have had the pleasure, over the past few years, of getting to know the country much better than before. Erdogan is a thin-skinned authoritarian demagogue, a thug who locks up people for perceived insults, a narcissist who sanctions the building of a 100 bathroom palace whilst half his country lives in poverty, who abuses his power and has huge influence over the judiciary (c/f: the recent order by the courts here to place a popular opposition paper into "administration"). Not bringing these things to the attention of the wider EU public would be irresponsible.
But, is he any worse than the governments in Poland, Hungary, Slovakia? Or how about Berlusconi? Erdogan bombs Kurds and we bomb Syrians thanks for LABOUR MPs voting for it. Not sure what point I'm making.
Turkey seems an OK sort of place that would benefit a lot from EU membership, and we could certainly do with broadening the make-up of the EU and bringing serious manufacturing clout to the club. EU membership would also impose the same rules re: good governance which could deal with the Erdogan problem. Let 'em in I say.
djchump wrote:I figure if we can afford to pay for the bombs that fuck a country up, we can easily afford to pay for the food and housing and shelter for the refugees fleeing the fuckedness, cos bombs are hella expensive.
bad_hair_day wrote:With the Tories underfunding the social infrastructure, it may come as no surprise I would be unhappy at an economic migration between 500,00 and 4.4 million in addition to the already high figure 300,000 per annum.
Probably an unpopular view around these parts but there it is.
GooberTheHat wrote:That's EU wide though hair, not UK bound. Also, EU immigrants actually contribute more in tax than they claim in benefits/tax breaks. They are a net + for the UK GDP.
bad_hair_day wrote:That's if they are employed, it's not beyond belief there are tens of thousands of young men looking for work that isnt there. Who benefits out of an oversubscribed workforce?That's EU wide though hair, not UK bound. Also, EU immigrants actually contribute more in tax than they claim in benefits/tax breaks. They are a net + for the UK GDP.
I don't think this is true. In my lifetime there will always be more people outside Europe with lower quality of life than those inside Europe. Not all of them will want to travel but there will always be war, oppression, famine, flood, earthquake and drought to flee from as well as economic reasons.Funkstain wrote:Other countries do so much more it's shockingly embarrassing. Germany are taking in millions, and much of their media is remains broadly supportive, whilst acknowledging the pressures and the tolls. If other EU countries did even a tenth of what Germany are doing there would be no "refugee problem".
Unless the birth rate goes up.Yossarian wrote:With our aging population we'd be fucked without immigration.
IanHamlett wrote:Unless the birth rate goes up.Yossarian wrote:With our aging population we'd be fucked without immigration.
Typical racism from Cinty there.Childintime wrote:...Jesus... I'm fucking done with this thread, it's not good for me. Enjoy yourself lads - feel free to continue to find articles about topics you know nothing about but that support your viewpoint so that you can repost and nod in agreement about them, knowing you're all completely right and there's no reasonable way any not-idiotic human could disagree with you.djchump wrote:"Spite vote" kinda sums up brexit, IMHO.
Last time I saw figures, Syrians were a minority. The largest minority but still a minority. You might see an attempt to enworsen Syria, but there's nothing in that for the EU. I see an attempt to stabilise the country so that Syrians can live there safely.Funkstain wrote:Which bit isn't true? Refugees, predominantly Syrians but with a fair few Afghans, are fleeing conflict zones which we've apparently done our best to enworsen.
I would like the UK to take more refugees, and I would like Germany to take refugees directly from Syria, but the UK is spending more on Syrian aid than any other EU country and trying to stabilise the country militarily. Maybe not the best strategy, but Syrians aren't fleeing British bombs.Funkstain wrote:Other countries, notably rich ones like ours, are doing everything they can to avoid taking any responsibility for those suffering. I find this embarrassing. This all, at first glance, appears true to me.
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