Mass Effect Universe (Spoilers)
  • Little Franklin
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    You're saying the ending was shit because it wasn't the real ending, just some illusion. I'm saying it was shit because it was rushed.
  • Someone mentioned a writer reshuffle, iirc the lead writer left after ME2 because they were moved onto The Old Republic (lulrony).

    ME2 had references to a dark energy as a force possibly higher than the reapers. This was never fleshed out any further. In my opinion that was for the better.
    Don't try and place me in a box, you cocks. If there's one thing I'm not, it's fucking tory scum.
  • I was fairly unconvinced by the Indoctrination theory. There's plenty on Youtube that's tenuous. The bit where Shepherd gets his mystery injury could just be bad continuity, for instance. 

    But there's a couple of things that just don't make any sense on any level without it. 
    The one that springs to mind is the weird black tentacles at the edge of the screen during the IM / Anderson bit on the Citadel. There's a couple of other bits as well that I remember seeing a while ago but can't be arsed to look up now. 


    So it was definitely put in there at some point. They might have had second thoughts halfway through and didn't tidy up the ending properly, or they might have really thought it worked as is. It would have been genius if they'd done it properly.
  • Little Franklin
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    Gonzo wrote:
    That's not what I'm saying at all, but hey.
    I'm talking about the non-indoctrination interpretation of the ending. You said it was shit and implied they knew it was shit.
  • Little Franklin
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    It's a toy shuttlecraft.
  • Thats the first time I have noticed the kid playing is THE kid. 

    @Little Franklin
    He is playing with Shepard's ship, like he is in control, very subtle.

    It does smack of fucking up good intentions.
  • Little Franklin
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    @Gonzo I'm going to bed now, maybe if I feel like it tomorrow I'll walk you through the previous posts and explain how you misunderstood what I was saying, then again maybe not, and I ignored the rest of your post because I'd already explained why I didn't believe the indoctrination theory.
  • Little Franklin
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    Goodnight :)
  • I really liked the ending, then I read about the indoctrination theory and decided that I absolutely loved the ending. It's a bit messy, but I'm okay with that. I don't quite understand how anyone can get so upset about it that they start a petition to change it. I'd say it's retarded but seeing as it now means more Mass Effect I won't complain. They may only give us a free cutscene, but I'm more than happy to pay for some dlc if that's what they decide.
    GT: RasDam Twitter: @RasDam
  • Little Franklin
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    Gonzo I did go to sleep and when I awoke I realised you were right and I was wrong. Please accept my deepest apologies.
  • Little Franklin
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    RasDam wrote:
    I'd say it's retarded but seeing as it now means more Mass Effect I won't complain.
    I reckon it might mean less, or at least less playable stuff, they'll be focusing on the ending cutscenes rather than new interesting playable DLC.
  • Yeah, too many coincidences with the kid to just put it off as 'fan theories' but it appears that they didn't have the confidence to follow it through which is why we get this lopsided thing at the end.

    Which isn't to say I hate the end, SciFi has a long history of crapping itself in the final frame and offering a Deus Ex Machina. All the people who say 'MY Shepherd would have fought on!' seem to ingore the fact that your Shepherd is delirious, dying and is presented with a choice from some shiny godchild who takes on the form of a spectre that has haunted his mind for weeks(months?)

    My Shepherd may have stood toe to toe with a Reaper prior to that, but she sure as hell hasn't ever been asked to make a choice whilst bleeding to death after a gruelling slog through merry old London town.

    But then again, that doesn't excuse the ending at all. It is just a counterpoint to all the people who share the opinion that mah Shep was betta'. It is like the whole 'Mass Relays cause the galaxy to die when the explode' arguement, backed up by a bit of lore and the fact that an Asteroid hitting one in DLC wipes out a lot of the Batarians. You could argue that the nature of the godchild's WHIZZO MACHINE BEAM causes the Relays to go down in a different way that ignores lore because, GUESS WHAT FUCKO, HE BUILT THEM AND HE CAN TAKE 'EM APART.

    People ingore these couterpoints though because they felt cheated by the lack of any real choice, without realising that they didn't have a lot of choice in the story at all. Regardless of what you do, you still 'win' in a way, as it is a game. You have to win in a game.

    With the subtle hints pointing at indoctrination, the dreamlike nature of the ending in The Crucible and lots of other factors, it points towards an ending that could have been brilliant. Maybe an ending where you take out the Reapers at a great cost, where something HAS to be sacrificed in a similar way to the RGB WHIZZO BEAM MACHINE making you chose from a deck of extremes that doesn't sit well.

    We'll never get that ending because the head writer bricked it and came up with an ending that was designed to 'start people talking'. Or, heck, maybe we will with the DLC?
  • When the Relay does its thing though, folks are shown in London alive and OK. From what the dude was saying it seemed that it was a different process than the thing just blowing up.
    I'm a Sasquatch man and I'm watching you.
  • Yeah, that was my take on it too. But some people have massively latched on to a bit of ME Lore, a bit of Lore that doesn't take into account The Crucible because the Crucible is unknown at the point of the Lore being written.

    Lore.
  • EvilRedEye
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    It's the Crucible shockwave that passes through London, after the relays blow up we never see galactic civilization (or what remains of it without the relays) again.

    Tempy, I do think that's a bit poor. The scene needed to be clear on a first viewing, it's no good watching the ending thinking 'WTF?' and then explaining it away later. You need to understand what's going on while you're watching the ending for it to have emotional impact. I'll repeat - although not everyone will have read it, a codex entry that unlocks right at the end of the game reiterates the whole destructive shockwave thing. Why re-emphasise a point if you're going to semi-ignore it later and hope people go with it?
    "ERE's like Mr. Muscle, he loves the things he hates"
  • Who knows, I just think it is an odd point to get hung up on when there is so much else that isn't great. The Godchild suddenly presents you with a way changing the entire galaxy in seconds, they fucked their own lore up.

    I'm not defending what they did with the ending, just explaining that you can wrangle two opinions out of it and claim either as right. The destructive shockwave thing could have been a matter of bad proof reading, having it slip in without thinking. It could have been written months before the ending and then forgotten about completely. Speculate ad infinitum here.
  • Little Franklin
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    Assuming the writers never meant for us to think the shockwaves would kill everyone, there's a shot that shows the explosions being visible from far outside the galaxy. This bugs me. Any explosion that bright would definitely kill everything in the system. You could say it's just artistic licence, but I don't want that shit in my Sci-Fi dammit.
    Tempy wrote:
    With the subtle hints pointing at indoctrination, the dreamlike nature of the ending in The Crucible and lots of other factors, it points towards an ending that could have been brilliant. Maybe an ending where you take out the Reapers at a great cost, where something HAS to be sacrificed in a similar way to the RGB WHIZZO BEAM MACHINE making you chose from a deck of extremes that doesn't sit well.
    What sort of ending do you imagine? Would you have preferred the original one?
  • I'd like the indoctrination ending to be the proper one. I genuinely don't even care about the fate of the universe bullcrap, I wanted it to be personal to Shepherd. I certainly didn't want my choices throughout the series to be presented in a series of those fuckawful 'prayer of the many' montages where the Geth hold hands with the Quarians whilse killing Reapers.

    I just wanted to conclude the Shep portion of the story. Submit to the will of the Reapers, try and side with TIM or battle through to a victory via death. Something like that I guess.
  • Is saving all future life not worth a bit of a hit now?
    I'm a Sasquatch man and I'm watching you.
  • Bollockoff
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    Gonzo wrote:
    including when you mention him to Garrus..

    What is it Garrus says then? I didn't spend much time with him. Or I forgot about it.

    And reading these lengthy paragraphs I agree with pretty much what you all say. The biggest thing that still bothers me about ME3 is that there were no Krogan squad members. What the fuck.
  • Is saving all future life not worth a bit of a hit now?

    That isn't very American.
  • It's *very* Sci-Fi though.
    I'm a Sasquatch man and I'm watching you.
  • Little Franklin
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    @Bollockoff dude how could you forget about Garrus? He's like one of the coolest characters.

    @Tempy I would kinda want to know what happened in the actual war that they'd been building up to for the past two games.
  • Tempy wrote:
    an odd point to get hung up on when there is so much else that isn't great.
    It essentially amounts to whether the universe has been saved or whether its been completely wiped out. That's a reasonably big thing when the mission from the start of the first game has been to save the universe. Although when I first saw it I assumed that everyone had survived the shockwave but was now stranded. 

    I also didn't realise that the Normandy was supposed to be in a mass effect jump (because why would it be?). So it made even less sense that they crashed on an unrecognisable planet. 

    I thought this was decent - an analysis on why the ending was so bad from a storytelling point of view.
  • But you've no context on how the lore got there. Fuck, I didn't even know there was that peice of lore until everyone banged on about it and how it made the ending shite.

    I am in no way defending the ending, at all. to make that clear for the billionth time.

    Maybe 90% of people did die, like Chet says, that is very SciFi.
    It's *very* Sci-Fi though.

    But it was written by American game writers.

    "Little wrote:
    @Tempy I would kinda want to know what happened in the actual war that they'd been building up to for the past two games.

    Yeah, I guess I would too, but the main impetues for me was Shep. Differ'nt strokes.
  • Bollockoff
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    I didn't like Garrus too much in the first game. Second game even less so because he went off and did exactly what I told him not to in the first. If we're talking badasses then Zaeed took the crown for that and all he had was straight monologue war stories. Some of those were the best bits of writing in the game, imo.

    Plus Zaeed's voice actor did a fucking awesome job.

    Liked him a bit more in ME 3 just because of the history and the lack of anyone else decent. I would have swapped him out in a flash for a Salarian or Krogan though.
  • But it was written by American game writers.

    Sci-Fi trumps nationality yo.
    I'm a Sasquatch man and I'm watching you.
  • Little Franklin
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    Bollockoff wrote:
    I didn't like Garrus too much in the first game. Second game even less so because he went off and did exactly what I told him not to in the first.
    Oh yeah, forgot about that.
    First game "You should do the right thing Garrus, he deserves a fair trial." "You're right Shepherd."
    Second game "Hey Shepherd, I just killed 100 people and I need some help killing the rest."
  • Tempy wrote:
    Fuck, I didn't even know there was that peice of lore until everyone banged on about it and how it made the ending shite.
    Even if that little bit of lore didn't exist, there's no way to tell if everyone is dead or everyone is alive. I completed the game, didn't really think about the Batarian explosion or anything but still didn't know. 

    That it does exist just serves to confuse things further.
  • Well yeah, it certainly does. It is just this minor plot point that is mixed up in this whole bag of mixed up plot points. There is worse to focus on, like THE MASSIVE DEUS EX MACHINA (literal) than 'oh but the Mass Relays kill everyone' They pissed their continuinity out of the window waaaay before that bit.

    The link you provided is interesting, and he shares the same notion as me - indoctrination was the aim and then something happened and we got the amputated ending.

    I still don't think they should change it though and I think it works ok at a casual glance. I was left unsatisfied, but not to the point where i'd plage even a dollar to get it changed. They did so much write that I can ignore the cock up at the end, it does ruin the game for me.

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