Brexit: Boris' Big Belgian Bangers - The Bear and Badger

monkey

Yossarian wrote:

davyK wrote:

What a fucking shambles. Brexiteers are probably thinking like anti-vaxxers now.

There was a poll going around earlier today in which one in three people blamed the lack of delivery drivers on the last Labour government.

They shouldn't have been so nice to them. Got them used to wanting stuff.

mistercrayon

It’s worth noting that while it’s easy to be smug about the lack of drivers and then the offering of temp visas. Don’t forget this is exactly the kind of immigration that was advertised - work permits based on needs. Enough dickheads will see this as the system working as intended and not a problem.

Yossarian

That’s assuming this actually works to get drivers in. They still have to deal with all the new holdups at the border, and they’re paid by the kilometre. Plus the entire country recently told them to fuck off. Visas are only a small part of the issue here.

AndCallMeCharlie

Isn’t the shortage euro wide? Post Covid people don’t want to be truck drivers - sure I saw that theres actually worse shortage in Poland. Brexit isn’t the root cause but a contributing factor to the shambles

acemuzzy

Yossarian wrote:

davyK wrote:

What a fucking shambles.

Brexiteers are probably thinking like anti-vaxxers now.

There was a poll going around earlier today in which one in three people blamed the lack of delivery drivers on the last Labour government.

Is this an actual thing? Fuck me. Link?

Kow

AndCallMeCharlie wrote:

Isn’t the shortage euro wide? Post Covid people don’t want to be truck drivers - sure I saw that theres actually worse shortage in Poland. Brexit isn’t the root cause but a contributing factor to the shambles

There is no shortage here, nor talk of any. There is a lot of talk about how fucking expensive petrol has got over the last 6 months, though.

Surely being a truck driver would be great in a pandemic - you don't have to meet almost anyone, sleep in your truck nice and safe.

Yossarian

acemuzzy wrote:

Yossarian wrote:

davyK wrote:

What a fucking shambles.

Brexiteers are probably thinking like anti-vaxxers now.

There was a poll going around earlier today in which one in three people blamed the lack of delivery drivers on the last Labour government.

Is this an actual thing? Fuck me. Link?

https://twitter.com/bnhwalker/status/1442080624920211461

RedDave2

Kow wrote:

AndCallMeCharlie wrote:

Isn’t the shortage euro wide? Post Covid people don’t want to be truck drivers - sure I saw that theres actually worse shortage in Poland. Brexit isn’t the root cause but a contributing factor to the shambles

There is no shortage here, nor talk of any. There is a lot of talk about how fucking expensive petrol has got over the last 6 months, though.

Surely being a truck driver would be great in a pandemic - you don't have to meet almost anyone, sleep in your truck nice and safe.

There is shortages on drivers but the impact is lessoned by the flow of driers within the eu and the fact that haulage companies can operate in multiple locations. A part of the uk issue seems to be that its not just the drivers not being available but the haulage companies as well.

LivDiv

LivDiv

From what I can gather there is an issue Europe wide of there not being enough drivers.

The conditions around Brexit have made a challenging situation a disaster.

On top of this EU countries have been attempting to address the issue in recent years by improving pay and facilities.

Our country spent 3.5 years absolutely paralysed by Brexit indecision such that instead of tackling the known industry recognised problem of a shrinking pool of HGV drivers our transport secretary at the time was hiring ferry companies with no boats.

equinox_code

I read somewhere over the weekend that it's also a problem in Germany. If that's true there certainly has been little to no coverage of it.

acemuzzy

I'm not sure that "ZOMG LOTS OF PETROL STATIONS ARE RUNNING OUT OF GAS AHHHH but please don't panic buy" is hugely useful media coverage over here...

LivDiv

The media is the government's pet sensationilising monster so I'm more than happy for it to turn on them.

Armitage_Shankburn

Never office buy. Office sell, crypto buy

acemuzzy

You what m8?

Armitage_Shankburn

THAT'S IT, FIGHT ME MUZ, OUTSIDE SHELL COLNEY HATCH LANE

LivDiv

Government advice at this time is to fight normally.
Thank you.

g.man

LivDiv wrote:

The IR35 percentage is a real eye-opener. Rancid legislation that nobody either wants or benefits from.

LivDiv

Its just so damn confusing.
If it was a clear binary thing, in or out, then it might not be such an issue.

I was thinking this morning on some of the criteria and how for HGV drivers it really is a tightrope.
Can they pick their own hours? Sort of but they have pickup and delivery windows.
Can they choose where they work? Well they are in a cab but they are taking things between two destinations so their locale is pretty defined.
Provide their own equipment? They may own their cab but not the trailer so which is it?

I looked into it quite a bit last year as did self employed friends. Our conclusions for ourselves were that we were pretty sure we weren't going to end up inside IR35 but the ambiguity meant that if HMRC decided we were it would be near impossible to argue. Plus anyone will tell you regardless of how squeeky clean you are being investigated by HMRC is an absolute fuck about that eats time and will either cost you in lost work or accountant fees.

Funkstain

Yep indeed. I thought that the ultimate conclusion was that the legislation was mostly to put off larger corps employing contractors and provide that sweet money back to the large body shop outsourcers (NTT, CapGemini and the like)

Yossarian

Polish truck driver and journalist on James O’Brien’s show discussing why visas will make little difference.

https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1442463839472152576

Tl;dw it’s what I said in response to Crayon.

LivDiv

So basically if, and its a big if, we get anyone from the EU to drive HGVs in the UK they are going to have to be paid stupid money and even then will be the bottom of the barrel that cant for whatever reason get work in the EU.

Armitage_Shankburn

LivDiv wrote:

I wish I was more technically able, because if so I'd change one of the bars to "because I got high" 90%

Also I would totally take on of those gov.uk "reskilling" tweets - anyone remember those comedy tweets suggesting people change careers at the beginning of covid..

And you know, make it so it only recommends becoming an HGV driver

acemuzzy

Ozno didn't know his next job was a crash test dummy

LivDiv

AndCallMeCharlie

So lockdown happened and it dawns on all these HGV drivers that living in a small cabin driving all the time isn't as good as being at home?

We had a workmate of my wife staying with us over the weekend, she is as little England as they come. Her "analysis" was that the crisis is "cause of Brexit". I tried to explain it was more nuanced than that but she wasn't having it.

Ironic that the one time Brexit isn't solely responsible is the time it resonates with the disengaged home county king makers.

GooberTheHat

poprock

“How it started … how it’s going.’

Escape

Our local fruit growers have managed without migrant workers this year. I'm quite surprised at that, because wages for locals are double.

Funkstain

Are they? I mean, were they always double for locals, or did they have to be double this year cos no eu workers?

It’s difficult to complain if local workers are getting a fairer, more appropriate local wage for the same work that used to underpay eu workers - not getting into the lack of prep and support etc the gov failed to sort out - isn’t it?

Howdy, Stranger!

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