Racist
  • Fwiw, I don't think the story is unimportant but....we don't know the agenda of the beeb. Just saying

    Culture wars/demonising a racist China is what sells/drives clicks today. Shell and the fossil fuel industry in Africa is yesterday's news.

    Edit for clarification
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  • Oooh, page turn
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  • Yossarian
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    hunk wrote:
    I don't think the story is unimportant but....we don't know the agenda of the beeb. .Just saying

    That wasn’t what you were saying, unless you’re implying that the agenda here is that the Beeb is somehow running interference for Shell?

    These objections to, what is, an interesting, well-presented, story which nobody is arguing is the most important story in the world are just facile.
  • Uh yeah, see my edit

    Also scrap shell for big business.
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  • Yossarian
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    I mean, is this not an interesting story in and of itself, which is likely to appeal to the journalist that tracked it down?

    Feels like this needs Occam’s Razor applied.
  • dynamiteReady
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    Yossarian wrote:
    I thought it was a good story to get out there, but I found it strange how it floated to the top of all social media feeds so quickly... Felt like there was an agenda behind it. Where's the Beebs deep dive into the Buffalo Killer, for example? But somehow, for this one random Chinese media bottom-feeder, they appear to roll out the red carpet on some Stacey Dooley shit.
    I expect that it was popular on social media as it used OSINT techniques to track down the story which are likely to gain traction on social media. The idea that certain stuff goes viral because of some “agenda” is conspiracy theory territory, unless you think that the Beeb are running botnets or something?

    I was calling it out, purely because it stood out. I see many of these kind of well produced tweets, on subjects such as these, from Al Jazeera, for example. They cast the net wide, and cover a load of interesting stories. But I barely even see mainstream news stories from the BBC on my feed, so that's why it sticks out for me.

    If I start seeing more content of the like from the Beeb, I might change my opinion.

    Also, racism in China is not exactly news
    Waiting for the viral Beeb investigation into Schwarz Piet, because that's surely coming, isn't it?
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  • Yossarian
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    Yossarian wrote:
    I thought it was a good story to get out there, but I found it strange how it floated to the top of all social media feeds so quickly... Felt like there was an agenda behind it. Where's the Beebs deep dive into the Buffalo Killer, for example? But somehow, for this one random Chinese media bottom-feeder, they appear to roll out the red carpet on some Stacey Dooley shit.
    I expect that it was popular on social media as it used OSINT techniques to track down the story which are likely to gain traction on social media. The idea that certain stuff goes viral because of some “agenda” is conspiracy theory territory, unless you think that the Beeb are running botnets or something?

    I was calling it out, purely because it stood out. I see many of these kind of well produced tweets, on subjects such as these, from Al Jazeera, for example. They cast the net wide, and cover a load of interesting stories. But I barely even see mainstream news stories from the BBC on my feed, so that's why it sticks out for me.

    You haven’t seen Ros Atkins explainers on your social feeds recently? Are you sure? They frequently go viral and are often the most viewed videos on the BBC’s site.

    If you genuinely haven’t spotted them, then I’m not sure what to say, they’re all over my feed.


    Sorry, what’s this got to do with children in Africa being paid to create racist content exactly?

    Is your takeaway from this news story really “China is racist” as opposed to the racist exploitation being carried out for the purposes of making money?

    Waiting for the viral Beeb investigation into Schwarz Piet, because that's surely coming, isn't it?

    Something like this article from almost a decade ago, you mean?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24979498

    I mean, long-standing traditions rarely qualify as news, and I’m not really sure what you expect the BBC to investigate in relation to it, the inventor of Zwarte Piet will be long dead, but a quick google of Black Pete and bbc.co.uk shows multiple articles about this over the years.
  • dynamiteReady
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    Interesting... I did run a search for Black Pete on the Beeb site itself, but it gave me cricket. I assumed they had done something but, like a Tory party erm, party, we move on...

    Also - https://chinadigitaltimes.net/2022/05/commissioned-in-china-made-in-africa-lockdown-shout-out-videos-boost-morale-but-reinforce-racist-stereotypes/

    And - https://www.scmp.com/news/people-culture/trending-china/article/3174665/china-coronavirus-new-craze-sees-shanghai

    So the story was out there. Just not trending.  

    I suppose I'm somehow expressing latent disappointment at what seems to be in the national interest.
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  • dynamiteReady
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    I also should answer this:

    Is your takeaway from this news story really “China is racist” as opposed to the exploitation being carried out for the purposes of making money?

    I'm saying that this story focuses on Chinese racism, and if the editors did not think it would be construed that way ('China in Africa, baad'), then what the fuck?
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  • Yossarian
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    Let’s forget about the fact that this is being done for a Chinese audience for a moment, if these videos were being produced for a European or American audience, do you think it would be newsworthy?
  • dynamiteReady
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    Yossarian wrote:
    Let’s forget about the fact that this is being done for a Chinese audience for a moment, if these videos were being produced for a European or American audience, do you think it would be newsworthy?

    That's a very interesting question in it's way. I would say yes, but what is, and isn't news worthy, really?
    Look at the UN, for example - https://news.un.org/en/story/2021/09/1100032 - a shining beacon of race relations acting so reprehensibly, that a country with a clear need for them, have been forced to kick them out.

    But this (racist Chinese social media) story for me, still stands out for it's focus. I actually know someone with close (academic) ties to Malawi. So perhaps I can personally tap an expert source for some balance on this story (is this common behaviour for Chinese expats?).

    But not everyone can.

    That's where I'm going with this.
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  • Yossarian
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    Sorry, I’ve no clue where you’re going with this.

    If the act that is being carried out is, in and of itself itself newsworthy, then all of this stuff about the fact that it happens to be being perpetrated by a Chinese person for a Chinese audience is neither here nor there. The story is the racist exploitation, and that’s worth covering.
  • dynamiteReady
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    Yossarian wrote:
    Sorry, I’ve no clue where you’re going with this

    Here:

    I suppose I'm somehow expressing latent disappointment at what seems to be in the national interest.

    It's news, absolutely. But it got an 8 minute documentary and widespread promotion. As for the Gabon / UN story, I had to search quite hard for that, but that's obviously much more horrific.

    But this is a losing battle. 

    And you're right. I shouldn't detract from the story. 
    I did already say I appreciated it in my post on the last page.
    "I didn't get it. BUUUUUUUUUUUT, you fucking do your thing." - Roujin
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  • Sadly, we'll probably see more of this as China grows as a superpower.
    China's socialist state capitalism is still a brand of capitalism and thus there will be exploitation.
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  • That is not offensive at all!
    (It looks crazy fun!)
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  • dynamiteReady
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    Interesting post. 

    I was watching that with sheer incredulity to start with. Then I went back and watched the whole thing with subtitles.

    My semiotics isn't on Reg's level, and symbolism is strongly supported by context. That said, the audience would not have been unaware of western tropes, so the blackface performances, and monkey jokes are undoubtedly offensive. Especially when attached to state sponsored messaging.

    That said, these images don't come with 300+ years of violence, torture and theft attached, so that's one thing, but not everything.

    The crux of this literal cringe-a-thon though, is a celebration of the completion of a multi million pound rail project in Kenya, and a pledge to support culture and trade links into the future.

    The closest western parallel that comes to mind, is Stacey Dooley's turn on Comic Relief, which basically takes an ex-colonial power as a subject for pity, in an effort to provide domestic tax relief for foreign aid enterprises. To be fair, I shouldn't be picking solely on Stacey Dooley. What's more, I couldn't even find that vid on Youtube to form a comparison.

    Ed Sheeran is a rather obvious stand in though. But I like that motherfucker.

    I don't think this Chinese Gala vid is a 'nothing to see here' case, because it's clearly dubious in parts. But it's an interesting way to introduce people to China's role in East Africa in a post BLM context.

    The other side of it, is in the detail of how some of these Chinese trade deals play out. But that's not a topic for this thread.

    Edit - Interesting article on the practical side of Chinese investment projects in Africa - https://thediplomat.com/2022/03/how-chinas-ambitious-belt-and-road-plans-for-east-africa-came-apart/
    "I didn't get it. BUUUUUUUUUUUT, you fucking do your thing." - Roujin
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  • https://twitter.com/erinoverbey/status/1551538497122713600?t=jyMTzcilgpVq_6xpj89cPQ&s=19

    New Yorker journo gets the flick for pointing out diversity issues.

    I'm still great and you still love it.
  • davyK
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    Wouldn't it be great if Africa got to its feet and told everybody to fuck away off?
    Holding the wrong end of the stick since 2009.
  • Africa's fault for having so many sexy minerals.
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    You need educated and civilized people in there or else they'd just be trading diamonds for goats or something dumb like that.
  • dynamiteReady
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    davyK wrote:
    Wouldn't it be great if Africa got to its feet and told everybody to fuck away off?

    You can almost imagine the pretext for an invasion. For 'peacekeeping' purposes, of course.
    "I didn't get it. BUUUUUUUUUUUT, you fucking do your thing." - Roujin
    Ninty Code: SW-7904-0771-0996
  • Kow
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    Behind paywall. 12 foot ladder doesn't work.
  • Yossarian
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    Weird, works for me, although the headline covers the main thrust of it.
  • Kow
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    Says 12 foot ladder has been disabled for this site, which I've never seen before.
  • Yossarian
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    Sorry, yeah, I meant I wasn’t getting a paywall on it, probably because I did one of my regular cookie clears yesterday.

    I’ve seen that message on 12FL on articles from the Economist or the Spectator or something like that. I’m guessing lawyers got involved.
  • Kow wrote:
    Behind paywall. 12 foot ladder doesn't work.
    Ugly formatting, but here's the body of the piece.
     
    Spoiler:

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