Looty & "Keep"? - The Bear and Badger

Escape

Recommended stridency of doommongering's hard to qualify, but there is a clear parallel to the arcades. From 50p premium cabs to double-quidders in the space of a few years, all chauffeured by graphics-push, and then a rampant arse-falling-out to a fruity dystopia.

Dark Soldier

Aye my buzz, with the fruit machine, was seeing the machine go off when I won, the 25 quid jackpot was irrelevant when you're dropping 50 quid a time.

Most rationalise it by potential winnings but it's not about that, it's about that endorphin release, not tangible rewards. As all.addictions are, it's about the chemistry in ya brain.

Escape

Playersoldier's Pullinggrounds

Dark Soldier

FIFA was HOLY SHIT I GOTS THAT RARE PLAYER, the fireworks, the walkout, the buzz. It meant fuck all in the scheme of things. Rationalising it because the general.gamer only spends $80 a year is nonsense when the ability is now.seeping into a casual hobby for those with those tendencies to slip back into them

They may have curved the irl gambling addiction but once that's done the last thing you want is your hobby saying to you 'just drop some.dollar ya don't need to grind', which leads to those predisposed to that weakness to cave. It's more abhorrent in games as it feeds that buzz and, at the very end of it, there is nothing but code to show for it. At least with real world gambling you may hit that jackpot and stroll away with a life changing sum.

Dark Soldier

The majority of gamers also don't listen to pewdiepie or jontron so let em be. It's not an argument, it's a contrary point because.

Escape

I probably spent a tenner on Mad Dog McCree without ever seeing past the jail. Endorphins, aye.

Them shit waterguns...

EvilRedEye

I don't know if it's an interesting contrast or not but when I've tried gambling in the past I've just felt absolutely nothing and then stopped because it didn't do anything. I've played a few F2P phone games related to JRPG franchises I like and they always went pear-shaped when I decided to pay for a microtransaction (mainly as a way of 'tipping' the game since sometimes I'd put hours in). I'd buy a pack of coins or whatever, spend it on the gacha... and then feel absolutely nothing, consequently feel that the game was a big pit of nothing and stopped playing it. I find it kind of interesting, almost weird, that I don't respond to that kind of thing at all.

Escape

EvilRedEye wrote:

I've tried gambling in the past I've just felt absolutely nothing

I've screwed up matched-betting amounts and felt fear. And that was with mitigated losses had I not been lucky.

Dark Soldier

EvilRedEye wrote:

I don't know if it's an interesting contrast or not but when I've tried gambling in the past I've just felt absolutely nothing and then stopped because it didn't do anything. I've played a few F2P phone games related to JRPG franchises I like and they always went pear-shaped when I decided to pay for a microtransaction (mainly as a way of 'tipping' the game since sometimes I'd put hours in). I'd buy a pack of coins or whatever, spend it on the gacha... and then feel absolutely nothing, consequently feel that the game was a big pit of nothing and stopped playing it. I find it kind of interesting, almost weird, that I don't respond to that kind of thing at all.

I don't respond to sports betting, or the lottery. Its like weed, some smoke it and fall in love, others smoke it and think wtf is that about. All bout that wiring innit.

Escape

I've done some blackjack freeplays online and felt nothing but sympathy for the Eastern Euro croupiers. Terrible business.

I hate high-stakes poker most of all for upselling the illusion of skill as a guarantee of success. Like when Coren won a big amount, but the entry fee was entertainment money to her. That's a world away from the player who's borrowed several grand and needs a profit to pay their rent.

The shitty machismo of those who can happily afford entries without getting into trouble bragging about how ballsy they are. The vast majority of poker is a desperate game.

EvilRedEye

I don't play the lottery regularly but I do, like, apparently get enough out of it to have played it a bit.

monkey

Dark Soldier wrote:

EvilRedEye wrote:

I don't know if it's an interesting contrast or not but when I've tried gambling in the past I've just felt absolutely nothing and then stopped because it didn't do anything. I've played a few F2P phone games related to JRPG franchises I like and they always went pear-shaped when I decided to pay for a microtransaction (mainly as a way of 'tipping' the game since sometimes I'd put hours in). I'd buy a pack of coins or whatever, spend it on the gacha... and then feel absolutely nothing, consequently feel that the game was a big pit of nothing and stopped playing it. I find it kind of interesting, almost weird, that I don't respond to that kind of thing at all.

I don't respond to sports betting, or the lottery. Its like weed, some smoke it and fall in love, others smoke it and think wtf is that about. All bout that wiring innit.

Yerp. Gambling does zilch for me, boring as hell in all it’s forms. Weed use though has caused a few problems over the years.

Djornson

Yossarian wrote:

Possibly, but I doubt it would be happening to this extent.

The sole purpose of 98.7% of companies in the world is to make as much money as possible. The employees themselves may prefer no loot boxes but they work for companies. Employees are rewarded by making the company money and punished for not. I believe your doubt is misplaced sir.

On lootboxes:

I don't believe they have affected me negatively yet.

I'm playing fortnite right now. Am i going to buy stuff? No. Other people buy stuff so i can play for free? Great.

Will they automatically beat me because they bought something? Then i will stop playing and play one of the other 80000 games on my list to play.

I don't really do micro transactions. I'm not massively against them i just don't see any value in them. I feel like they are temporary, fleeting. I don't subscribe to Netflix/Spotify etc because if i'm paying for something i want to own it forever. It's probably an idea dying with my (our?) generation.

After typing all this, i don't actually think i know what lootboxes are.

mistercrayon

Yossarian wrote:

Again, I’m happy to reconsider this argument in the face of evidence that this has been causing these sorts of issues, but I still have trouble believing that people who are at risk of getting addicted to gambling will be getting addicted to loot crates over and above actual gambling which can offer them actual money.

Comedic. As if there’s some entirely rational basis for all of this shit.

Why would anyone do a fruit machine or roulette when you can objectively see a) you lose money and b) the blatant explicit odds are in the favour of the respective house.

Yossarian

Fine, show me some evidence. I’m seeing lots of posts asserting that it must be true that these are causing problems, but nobody has yet offered anything to back these assertions up.

mistercrayon

did you miss ds fucking post(s)?!

Yossarian

He recognised that he was getting sucked in and stopped after spending £150. It's not like he ended up homeless after losing his rent money in the bookies.

Escape

Equally, he might've spent £150 at the bookies before knocking that on the head. But he got roped-in by a game.

Dark Soldier

Its only a meagre amount doesn't really matter lads.

Escape

They've put the price of our cod up, mate. £11 for two. My dad goes in 'cause he gets free pensioner chips.

Dark Soldier

Get addicted to it and then start a thread about cod shouldn't be in fish and chip shops.

Escape

Yossarian wrote:

It's not like Escape ended up homeless after spending his money on jumbo sausages.

Yossarian

Dark Soldier wrote:

Its only a meagre amount doesn't really matter lads.

My point is more that you were able to stop without this adversely affecting you. Presumably you didn't spend more than you could afford, you didn't go into debt because of this, you didn't fail to pay your bills or rent or whatever. You bought a game full in the knowledge that it was a game which would require additional expenditure, you spent some more money on it, the experience wasn't working out for you and you walked away from it.

I have no intention of minimising or dismissing your experience, I do understand that you are concerned about the feelings that it invoked and that's fair enough, but this doesn't strike me as evidence of loot boxes being this huge problem that people are making them out to be. The fact that you stopped so quickly would, if anything, suggest the opposite.

mistercrayon

Jesus read it properly. He saw the signs which were similar to when something was properly bad and managed to put a stop to it.

You are basically saying: because a person avoided a train running level crossings is fine.

Djornson

I was addicted to World of Warcraft at one point. It made my life pretty shit. It's not the worst addiction but not a happy state of mind. Why are we equating addiction to homelessness?

Dark Soldier

Yossarian wrote:

Dark Soldier wrote:

Its only a meagre amount doesn't really matter lads.

My point is more that you were able to stop without this adversely affecting you. Presumably you didn't spend more than you could afford, you didn't go into debt because of this, you didn't fail to pay your bills or rent or whatever. You bought a game full in the knowledge that it was a game which would require additional expenditure, you spent some more money on it, the experience wasn't working out for you and you walked away from it. I have no intention of minimising or dismissing your experience, I do understand that you are concerned about the feelings that it invoked and that's fair enough, but this doesn't strike me as evidence of loot boxes being this huge problem that people are making them out to be. The fact that you stopped so quickly would, if anything, suggest the opposite.

Stopped because of previous experience, I dumped about £1400 of benefit money into fruit machines over a ten month period. If I hadn't experienced that at a young age, fuck knows. If I'd been in the place I was mentally six months ago, I'd be in deep right now.

I'm not gonna continue this because you'll argue it to the fucking death so I'm out. Until someone shows a graph or some hardcore stats nothings gonna change your mind so what's the point. The world keeps on spinning and I'll remember not to get into such discussions in the future as it always leads to a tedious back and forth that gets absolutely fucking nowhere.

Take it easy Yoss.

Yossarian

Djornson wrote:

I was addicted to World of Warcraft at one point. It made my life pretty shit. It's not the worst addiction but not a happy state of mind. Why are we equating addiction to homelessness?

Because the argument has been made in this thread that loot boxes = gambling and that loot boxes in games are basically introducing children to gambling.

Djornson

Yossarian wrote:

I was addicted to World of Warcraft at one point. It made my life pretty shit. It's not the worst addiction but not a happy state of mind. Why are we equating addiction to homelessness?

Because the argument has been made in this thread that loot boxes = gambling and that loot boxes in games are basically introducing children to gambling.

And then how do we get to homelessness? I was trying to say there are varying degrees of addiction all of which is bad. Now you are talking about gambling (how did we get there?) Gambling isn't necessarily addictive, it's certainly not to me.

Don't children gamble with like.. marbles? conkers?

Yossarian

Dark Soldier wrote:

Yossarian wrote:

Dark Soldier wrote:

Its only a meagre amount doesn't really matter lads.

My point is more that you were able to stop without this adversely affecting you. Presumably you didn't spend more than you could afford, you didn't go into debt because of this, you didn't fail to pay your bills or rent or whatever. You bought a game full in the knowledge that it was a game which would require additional expenditure, you spent some more money on it, the experience wasn't working out for you and you walked away from it. I have no intention of minimising or dismissing your experience, I do understand that you are concerned about the feelings that it invoked and that's fair enough, but this doesn't strike me as evidence of loot boxes being this huge problem that people are making them out to be. The fact that you stopped so quickly would, if anything, suggest the opposite.

Stopped because of previous experience, I dumped about £1400 of benefit money into fruit machines over a ten month period. If I hadn't experienced that at a young age, fuck knows. If I'd been in the place I was mentally six months ago, I'd be in deep right now. I'm not gonna continue this because you'll argue it to the fucking death so I'm out. Until someone shows a graph or some hardcore stats nothings gonna change your mind so what's the point. The world keeps on spinning and I'll remember not to get into such discussions in the future as it always leads to a tedious back and forth that gets absolutely fucking nowhere. Take it easy Yoss.

And fair play DS, as I say, I'm not trying to take away from your experience. I hope it's not coming across that way.

monkey

What are you disputing Yoss? That exposure to gambling at a young age doesn’t affect people? Or that loot boxes aren’t gambling?
If it’s the first there’s countless studies on it, do a google, take your pick.

If it’s the second one have a read of this report which caused a petition and an MP asking a question in parliament about it and the government recognising the risk.
http://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/PDF/Virtual-currencies-eSports-and-social-casino-gaming.pdf

You’re currently less enlightened on this issue than the Tory government. Congrats.

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