Zen through anger, or: Your moods when you game.
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  • I realised this weekend that for whatever reason, my relationship with gaming on a whole has changed a lot. I'm getting a bit poor at games in general now, not devoting half as much time to then as I ever used to and as I result I seem to get frustrated a lot. It isn't pad snapping frustration, but mainly vitriolic swearing, eye rolling and utter indignation at failure. Eventually I'll hit a point when the quickening rage subsides into a kind of endorphin fuelled calmness where I breeze through previously difficult sections like a leaf on the wind.

    Case in point was a terribly unfair boss fight in DMC4 where you control the clunky Nero against Dante, king of dashing around like a slippery wet thing on wheels. He'd ripped chunks off my health bar and I was getting audibly and probably visibly annoyed with the game before managing to turn the tables and turn into some kind of pirouetting brick, clumsily dodging attacks before punishing him for being such a dolt, "take that AND that you digital cunt" I spat, pretty much verbatim.

    Also, dark Soul's Four Kings remains my gaming White Whale, and the heady rush of adrenaline during the fight always ends up being turned into contempt for the disk in the drive, and vows of never touching it again, before crawling back like an abused lover. Something about running on that fine line between victory and failure provides a bit of a rush, but it is tempered by my self loathing which feels that I should be better at these things, after all I did beat DMC3 on hard so it is pretty much my god given right to be able to conquer these Everests of difficulty.

    So, in short, are you the wise old zen master capable of taking repeated game over screens without a flinch, or do you melt down into a pad snapping, bile spitting mess at the first sign of defeat? Anecdotes welcome.
  • regmcfly
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    I've gone the other way. As a youngster I was angry and irritable if I didn't 'get' something first time, and in the days of 3-live SNES platformers, that meant I didn't finish many games. I'll never forget biting my SNES controller before throwing at the floor and going off to huff on my Transformers bean bag (YES) after failing, again, to beat M.Bison on 7 stars on SF2 Turbo. I used to get really frustrated at cheap design and I also used to just phone my friend to tell me how to solve the puzzles in Simon the Sorceror 2.

    I've really calmed down in adult age, and I just give a sort of laugh or weary sigh if something isn't going my way. I'll no longer turn the 360 off if I'm losing a FIFA league game, rather I'd keep it an accurate portrayal of my 'season' than have a perfect win record. They're just games, and I won't be good at them all - it's okay, I don't have to finish them. There are the few that I do get cheesed with - DMC, as Tempy has mentioned, is a favourite of mine too, and it can feel ridiculously cheap. The elation I had when I beat Bayonetta was also a moment I'll never forget. But overall, I don't get wound up or frustrated. All I have to do is turn off the console.
  • regmcfly
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    There is also no shame in choosing Easy mode. Although for some reason on my first Darksiders run, I've started on hard. I guess if I have no knowledge of what Normal / Easy is, Hard will seem the norm? Maybe? Maybe.
  • Wierdly Resi 5 co-op has been full of moments that would tick me off usually, but something about it being co-op has rendered that moot.
  • I used to be terrible. I broke three PS2 pads in one session of God of War 2.

    I still rage at online gaming (Halo, BF3, GoW etc) but I think that is mainly because I'm shit at it but good at the campaigns, I have begun to realise they may as well be different games and now can't be fucked with online, competitive MP.

    Mainly now I find it best to have a few games on the go, currently it is Dark Souls, Vanquish, Tony Hawk Shred, THPS HD and a few other bits. If the red mist descends I will just load up another game and chill for a bit.
  • regmcfly
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    Tempy wrote:
    Wierdly Resi 5 co-op has been full of moments that would tick me off usually, but something about it being co-op has rendered that moot.

    There's something about a shared experience of a busted game that makes it okay. It's as if there's someone else watching it break, which validates your decision that it is broken and not your fault.
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    For some reason I get more angry when I've got someone to listen to me. In Battlefield BC2 and BF3 I've sworn and sworn and nearly broke a pad.

    When I play the PC version on my lonesome I just trundle about taking the knocks.
  • I find that if I am continually dieing on a good game then I will feel like it is my fault and will tend to continue trying. I only get annoyed when it feels like I am dieing because the game is being cheap. Examples:

    Going through the campaign on Ghost Recon Future Soldier was great fun, even when I got a tad stuck on a few moments. However, after many deaths, I took it slower, planned well and got through the moment. The game wasn't being unfair, I just wasn't being sensible enough. Not too frustrating as I knew it was my fault.

    Going through Max Payne 3 was infuriating. The rooftop battle was ridiculous. It was constantly shaking due to explosions and was incredibly frustrating to hit anything. When you got to the end there was a super armoured mini-gun dude to deal with. However, the cutscene where he was introduced left you completely out of cover once finished (I was frequently killed instantly as I tried to get in cover) and the one time I did really well and was wearing him down, the game decided this was timed segment (not that it explained this) and I was blown up with the building. Cue much swearing and sweaty palms. Stuck the game on easy from then on and still couldn't do the final fight as that was also cheap.
    Gamertag: aaroncupboard (like the room where you keep towels)
  • It must be the sharing. I am unable to call Four Kings 'cheap' because of the Dark Souls massive, but really, it fucking is. It's a black spot on that game because it does just give up being inventive with its enemies and goes, "ah we've run out of ideas so fuck it, here is a boss where you might have to fight three of them who can kill you in two hits and they also attack you from off camera and some of the attacks are unavoidable lol."

    Of course, there is a way to do it so you only have to fight one at a time, but it seems to know this so the Kings will sometimes decide to stall for time by using AoE moves again and again, stopping you from getting in. But i've had it hammered into me that 'it is fair' which pisses me off more than the actual act of getting beaten, I think.

    I often wonder if developers do just code in moments of sheer spite, like the above AoE-keep away example, just to push your limits.
  • regmcfly
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    Max Payne 3 was the last time I just thought 'I don't need this shit. I don't care enough about Max, the story is a bit bobbins, and I'm not having a good time.' so it just came out of the drive and went to the tradeinnery.
  • I don't get angry or overly frustrated anymore, unless the game is badly designed or my poor performance is due to something outside of my control like lag.  I think this is because I'm basically at peace with the fact that I'm no longer as good at games as I used to be - lack of time, other commitments and an aging brain have put paid to that.

    If it gets to the point where I'm getting pissed off with a game, I just stop playing it.  Case in point is Dark Souls - I just can't get past 4 Kings and haven't played it for a few months now.  I may or may not go back to it - I really ought to try and finish it though.  Cannot believe how much free time people seem to have to sink into various builds and run throughs etc.

    If anything, these days I get the most aggravated my the moods of others.  Playing XBL games and having to listen to the constant moaning, rage and annoyance  of other players can go from comical to pathetic pretty quickly.
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  • regmcfly wrote:
    Max Payne 3 was the last time I just thought 'I don't need this shit. I don't care enough about Max, the story is a bit bobbins, and I'm not having a good time.' so it just came out of the drive and went to the tradeinnery.

    I completely agree. I was enjoying it until the aforementioned moment, then it was just a battle to the end. Got fed up and it was out of the flat by the end of the day.
    Gamertag: aaroncupboard (like the room where you keep towels)
  • @grem - you are the master of dropping into BF3, before calmly stating "Nah, can't be arsed with this bollox" 90 seconds later.

    I'm definitely put off by some of the harder games out there (SMB, Spelunky, even Dark Souls I can't be arsed with truth be told). I think the level of enjoyment and feeling of finally beating these games would pale into insignificance at the frustration I'd endured to get there.

    Oddly, I don't find shmups that maddening, even though they are mostly hard as nails.
  • sorry, can't resist :)

    71177_221116584621_6061699_n.jpg
    He could've just said they came from another planet but seems keen to convince people with his bullshit pseudoscience that he knows stuff. I wouldn't trust him with my lunch. - SG
  • regmcfly wrote:
    I've gone the other way. As a youngster I was angry and irritable if I didn't 'get' something first time, and in the days of 3-live SNES platformers, that meant I didn't finish many games. I'll never forget biting my SNES controller before throwing at the floor and going off to huff on my Transformers bean bag (YES) after failing, again, to beat M.Bison on 7 stars on SF2 Turbo. I used to get really frustrated at cheap design and I also used to just phone my friend to tell me how to solve the puzzles in Simon the Sorceror 2.

    I've really calmed down in adult age, and I just give a sort of laugh or weary sigh if something isn't going my way. I'll no longer turn the 360 off if I'm losing a FIFA league game, rather I'd keep it an accurate portrayal of my 'season' than have a perfect win record. They're just games, and I won't be good at them all - it's okay, I don't have to finish them. There are the few that I do get cheesed with - DMC, as Tempy has mentioned, is a favourite of mine too, and it can feel ridiculously cheap. The elation I had when I beat Bayonetta was also a moment I'll never forget. But overall, I don't get wound up or frustrated. All I have to do is turn off the console.

    I had a Transformers beanbag too! :-)

    I don't swear too often in 'real life', but watching football (primarily Liverpool) and gaming, I tend to link individual swear words into massive sentences of pure cuss.

    If I'm finding a game frustrating to the point that I'm at the point of potentially damaging something, I stop playing.

    Psychonauts drove me the that point, so I took the disc out the PS2, put it back in its case and traded it at the first opportunity.

    360 - optimark prime PSN - optimark_prime twitter - @optimark_prime
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    The rooftop battle was ridiculous. It was constantly shaking due to explosions and was incredibly frustrating to hit anything. When you got to the end there was a super armoured mini-gun dude to deal with. However, the cutscene where he was introduced left you completely out of cover once finished (I was frequently killed instantly as I tried to get in cover) and the one time I did really well and was wearing him down, the game decided this was timed segment (not that it explained this) and I was blown up with the building. Cue much swearing and sweaty palms.

    How my computer lived through that sequence I will never know; my girlfriend was bemused by the fact that I didn't just stop playing. Clever girl.
    (loved the rest of the game though. Apart from the final fight; you're right, that was also shit)
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  • Yes, my girlfriend's catchphrase is "Why do you keep playing it if it upsets you that much?"

    I don't like it when a game:

    1) Kills me with things off screen.

    2) Kills me by making the camera suddenly swing round so "up" on the analogue stick is now pointing towards a ravine.

    3) Kills me just by pure persistence, such as bosses that take an hour to kill.

    4) Forces me to redo sections of the level that I can do with my eyes closed before getting back to the bit that kills me. I've mastered it, stop making me do it over and over again. Never got frustrated by a single boss in Dark Souls - it was having to repeatedly do the pointless little walk up to them that pissed me off.

    Basically, if it feels fair then I can take a repeated pounding without ever getting upset. In fact, it makes me laugh. If it doesn't feel fair, control pads will be flung even if I ultimately succeed.
    You really are fond of chatting with me, aren't you? If I didn't know better, I'd think you had feelings for me!
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    Heh.

    Your GF sounds nice. My missus comes in when I'm playing BF and says "why do you keep playing if you're no good at it?"

    I try to explain I am good at it, and that's why I'm getting angry but it falls on deaf ears.
  • My fiancee tends to tell me off if I swear too much. Thank god she was out when I was playing Max Payne. She would have been shocked by what I was saying.
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  • Dark Soldier
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    I recently rediscovered my gaming anger. Used to get it by the cuntload in the old days, to the point where I barely finished any of my MD games when young (although, once the Saturn appeared, I raged and played it so much I was like a God at Wipeout).

    Raged a fair few times at God of War 3, mainly from Kratos not double jumping despite my cocking input being fine, and a few bosses where I got pissed off cos I had to dodge and couldn't just spam attack. Also at Everybody's Golf, when a putt misses by about .2/.3, which you know is your fault but at times it happens so very fucking consistently that you can't help but think the game sodding hates me.

    However, I'm still unbelievably chilled at Trials Evo, which has taken me by shock considering my HD anger tantrums.
  • I'm only angry when the game has done something to win that clearly isn't fair. 

    I got angry at the Stray demon in Dark souls because I thought it was being a right cont. Though it turned out I just wasn't using the right tactic to make to kick him up the arse.
    Sometimes here. Sometimes Lurk. Occasionally writes a bad opinion then deletes it before posting..
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    I'm normally zen, but Puzzle Quest Galactrix had me spitting fire.
    Get schwifty.
  • It happens far less nowadays, because games tend to have fewer technical/camera glitches that cause problems, or they let you switch difficulties, or I'll just give up.

    I don't like reducing difficulty, and only do it if I'm that keen on seeing the rest of the game but just can't take some of the stuff it throws at me. It got brought right down towards the end of Mass Effect 3 just because it was dragging on far too long and I wanted to get to the end. There was also that terrible Kai Leng (?) boss battle that just didn't seem to be worth the effort. I was certainly getting wound up there before I dropped the difficulty.

    On Dark Souls I've rarely got really pissed of despite being killed many times by some bosses, and mostly it hppened on the first time through before it had really clicked how things worked. You can feel a bit silly afterwards when you finally change tactics and it turns out it wasn't that tough all along - you were just doin it rong.

    And Tempy, I know this won't help, but if 4 Kings is giving you that much trouble you're doing it wrong too, or using the wrong equipment. No matter what attacks they use you shouldn't be getting to a point where there's 3 of them there at the same time.
  • Maybe i've not explained my Four Kings gripe properly. I know the tactic to taking them down and can comfortably get to the third or fourth king, at some points I even seem to have to wait for a good 15-30 seconds them to appear.

    What sometimes happens though, is that they like to be shits with the AoE, grab, or missile attacks (last death was to that ludicrous homing salvo of about 20 missiles) honestly, the time before that I ended up twiddling my thumbs waiting for King 3 and when he appeared he did the lunge (which I got hit by) and then proceeded to do grab>grab>AoE>grab, and I just couldn't get in to hit him before number 4 appeared and I got splattered by them both. I just laughed it off, but I've pretty much given up on ever beating him with that character as it would require tedious grinding for weapons and equipment etc

    I am still convinced it does not have the elegance of any of the other bosses to that point though.
  • What SL are you? Summon and be forever done with it, maybe?
  • Paul the sparky
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    Gremill wrote:
    If anything, these days I get the most aggravated my the moods of others.  Playing XBL games and having to listen to the constant moaning, rage and annoyance  of other players can go from comical to pathetic pretty quickly.
    Sorry about that Grem, you too for yesterday Carbon. 

    @Tempy - So you first get angry at the game, then hit the zen/super focused/Neo at the end of The Matrix mode? Works the other way for me, once the anger levels rise I can hardly press the right button. 

    Have there been any studies into this? I'm thinking from the perspective of competitive sports too, with that Rooney goal where he was arguing with the ref three seconds before smashing a volley in from thirty yards. Some people must be better at channeling the anger and making use of it, others just get consumed by it.

    Re: Dark Souls, I didn't find Four Kings too hard, done them on my third attempt (possibly got lucky as I did with Capra). The last boss was a relentless bastard for me though, he doesn't even give you time to chug an estus between attacks, the cheap swine.
  • Yep, it's a knife edge thing though, it feels like I'm just out of control and it can't possibly last, and it rarely does.

    @Nick: SL 70 with one, 80 with another. There is a lot of pride at stake Nick, plus I'm fwightened of the big scary lout.
  • I have characters in range. Can do it tonight if you like, first get me on chat and try it alone using the following advice - if you follow this and don't see an improvement then it really is time to jolly up!

    Imagine you a tank. Super powerful for short periods, with a long reload time and heavy armour. This is the way to beat 4K without being dubs, who avoids every hit. Use Caduceus round shield for mag defense, and go at 50% equip rate, one ring slot for abyss ring obviously, and the other for havels or flip.

    Try to get your physical defense to high 200s or over, balancing to incorporate magic defense to help block homing bolt. Essentially, any of havel's kit as it has the highest mag defense in the game, I believe, while still being able to move. Fuck it, just wear his stone coat if you have he stamina.

    Right after you drop in, buff your weapon however you can, and neck a green herb. Do both of these again in between kings.

    You want to get in the ankles of the Ks. Some of his melee attacks will hit you but only do 1% damage, for some reason. Some will entirely whiff. He can't homing blot from there. THE THING is looking for his wind up animation of grab or AOE and backing off to a safe distance when he does. This is honestly how I do it every time and it's never more than three attempts - though I've never done it first time, and that is down to being unlucky with grabs/AOE. When you're tanked up it's not the damage that matters, it's the amount of time it takes before more Ks appear.

    I think you've been very unlucky with that last point, by the sounds..but yeah, let's co op that fucker(s) if it doesn't work, no shame in it mang!
  • I don't want to drag this thread into another Dark Souls love in, my fault for mentioning it though, but i'll give it another try with those tips and then maybe I will have to resort to co-op. Never thought of the weapon buff technique actually, and I noticed the reduced weapon damage but assumed it was better to dodge, hmm.

    Anyway, angriest I've ever been at a game... probably God Hand, haha.
  • Ok I'll post something on topic.

    Street fighter + beer + lag = rage.
  • Street Fighter = rage

    (thanks for the extra tips, I didn't mean to seem ungrateful)
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