Society's Ills - A study in the perceived inequalities between the "haves" and the "have nots" - The Bear and Badger

Jacuzzi_Jackson

Suck a bag of dicks.

Rev

OM NOM NOM NOMMM...

Dark Soldier

Tempy wrote:

Dark Soldier wrote:

What am Oopsilon

you am babs

YES I THINK!

Brooks

Temps all I can really take from that account is that anyone's success or failure is the product of a series of horrible accidents.

Brooks

I feel we need a fuckingshitocracy, insofar as that will speak for everyone.

M0stly harm13ss

Hard work, good looks or effective social skills put you in a position to have a series of accidents which may or may not take you up the ladder?

Rev

My dad said I was a horrible accident.

Tempy

Brooks wrote:

Temps all I can really take from that account is that anyone's success or failure is the product of a series of horrible accidents.

You can take that she's incredibly clever and driven, and I think you can nurture intelligence, but in the end certain people have differing capacities for it. A lot of the rest are accidents, yes, and her views aren't entirely great considering her intelligence... nor does she display much tact. So basically it is never clear. She did not just 'work hard for profit' nor is it entirely luck.

Said Sir Pointsouttheobviousalot

Brooks

Taking as macro a view as I can without shedding literal tears it occurs to me that much of the World Right Now seems to be about treading water until Science or Ruin answers all.

Brooks

And that may in fact be business as usual for the species, it's just that it's a lot easier to realise as much in the megamediamatic early 21st century, but greater awareness has no firmer guarantee of being translated into action whatsoever.

Diluted Dante

Just out of interest MK, when was the last time you earned under 10k in a year?

dynamiteReady

Brooks wrote:

Taking as macro a view as I can without shedding literal tears it occurs to me that much of the World Right Now seems to be about treading water until Science or Ruin answers all.

And that may in fact be business as usual for the species, it's just that it's a lot easier to realise as much in the megamediamatic early 21st century, but greater awareness has no firmer guarantee of being translated into action whatsoever.

Meh...

Tempy

Oh I have a question too:

"Who here feels they earn their wage/salary or has earnt what they currently own?"

I can honestly say I think I have not, but in the job I work In i'd say the majority of the staff does not earn their wage. Now you.

Moto70

mk64 wrote:

Moto I lost my job in December and now I'm changing industry to finance (hopefully). If I get the job I will have to move to Moscow (without my wife and daughter for now). I will take the job though because it could set me up for life. It could o fucking pear shaped and I've not even got the job. If you live somewhere with no opportunities (I know Barnstaple well) then I would move to a city.

How did you change industry? What were you before and how did you think that finance would be suitable?

I struggle to think that you have just applied for a job in finance with no experience other than what you have learned yourself since December. As for me I would never consider leaving my family again as the two opportunities I had but turned down show*. Again though this isn't addressing the issue that I believe is under discussion, this whole thread came from the child of a very rich man spending nearly Â£31,000 on drinks in one venue in a single evening. Would Bernie's life be under any greater duress if he was taxed a little bit more on his estimated Â£2.7 billion thus spreading the accumulated wealth?

* I was offered a job with A1GP for Â£50k a year, it would have involved travelling the world for most of the year so with the costs of running a home in the UK for my family, working away and travelling home the wages wouldn't be any better than they were as a postie. The second offer came from a mate who said there was a job for me as an armed guard on the ships operating in the Gulf of Aden and Arabian Sea, it was around Â£1,500 per week tax free and even though he said the danger was minimal. Again I didn't fancy being away from home for 6 months but more importantly I didn't fancy becoming part of the 'minimal'...

Yossarian

mk64 wrote:

Also yoss. You keep on about the poor. The vast majority of poor people in the uk have a lot more than in other countries. I honesty think people have too high an expectation of what they should get/achieve.

Â Â
I'm talking about inequalities in wealth, so poor is relative to the society you live in.

Â

Lord_Griff wrote:

FYI, by their own admission France is bust. Socialist tax and spend doesn't work.

Â

France has only just got rid of Sarkozy who wasn't a socialist and didn't use tax and spend policies, so if it's bust, it's not due to a failure of tax and spend, but rather a failure of Sarkozy's free market instincts.

Lord_Griff wrote:

Yoss' prob is that he can'tÂ liveÂ where he wants to. Did-fucking-dums.

The reason I can't live where I was born and raised, in one of the poorer boroughs of London, is due to the fact that house prices are being pushed out of my league by people who are vastly more wealthy than me because we live in such a ridiculously unequal society.

And for the record, I'm really quite angered by your 'diddums' comment.Â As I say, this is the area I've lived in all my life, where my friends, family and support networks are. Being forced to leave because this city has become a playground for the super-rich and property investors from all over the world looking to make a quick buck through the ridiculously high prices they can charge for rent in London is a legitimate thing to be angry about. I have reduced hopes, dreams and ambitions from my parents' generation due to having had successive governments pandering to the rich rather than people like myself. And for what? What did the property boom even buy us? Ten or fifteen years of boom, followed by, what's looking like, a similar amount of time of bust (fuelled by the lack of proper tax and spend policies as Labour failed to build up a surplus in the boom years which they could now spend to help stimulate the economy and get us out of this mess).

mk64

Dante. 2000-2003 I worked behind a bar during uni.

Moto. They contacted me through linked in as they think I have the skills and attributes needed. I can learn the product etc. I've no background in finance.

Lord_Griff

Yoss, you can whinge about it or try and do something.

dynamiteReady

dynamiteReady wrote:

Taking as macro a view as I can without shedding literal tears it occurs to me that much of the World Right Now seems to be about treading water until Science or Ruin answers all. And that may in fact be business as usual for the species, it's just that it's a lot easier to realise as much in the megamediamatic early 21st century, but greater awareness has no firmer guarantee of being translated into action whatsoever.

Meh...

Sorry Brooks, that was rude of me.Â
I just have an aversion to aÂ reductionist view of societal problems.

Please excuse me. It's why I don't like to post in such threads.

Brooks

The point about support networks is of key worth here - we talk about wealth being a consequence of being able to make the most of those. If we accept that they're a resource, pushing people out the way of that resource starts to look really fucking nasty.

Brooks

Dyno I read that as a gag about indolence in the face of crisis tbh.

Diluted Dante

mk64 wrote:

Dante. 2000-2003 I worked behind a bar during uni.

That might well explain why you don't see the issue with relocating then.

Yossarian

Gonzo wrote:

Which area is that Yoss?

Â

Lewisham.

Lord_Griff wrote:

Yoss, you can whinge about it or try and do something.

One thing I can do about it is point out the issues in the hopes that other people will see what the problems are and we can start to make a change in the way our currently pretty fundamentally broken society is set up and organised.

Brooks

I've never entirely been able to get my head around aversions to relocating, personally. I think that puts me at a significant disadvantage.

Tempy

Monetary aversions innit.

Lord_Griff

Gonzo is right. Why should you be entitled to live where you were brought up? The area you grew up thirty years ago is not the area it is now. It may be more expensive. So expensive that you can't afford to live there. So live close by, or with your parents. Attempt to save some money and eventually you may be able to purchase aÂ propertyÂ in the area.

It may suck that you can't, on a whim, do whatever the fuck you want, but you might achieve your goal eventually.

Diluted Dante

Eventually is now being measured in decades though. This doesn't strike me as right.

brooks, aside from the large cost relocating usually brings, moving away from everyone you know is generally something holding people back.

Moto70

mk64 wrote:

They contacted me through linked in as they think I have the skills and attributes needed. I can learn the product etc. I've no background in finance.

I find it incredible that this would happen still in this day and age, that you (with absolutely no experience) would be picked over all the other people who have actual experience. In fact I'd go so far as to say you have been incredibly lucky. How much exactly did you have to send to the Nigerian prince to make this happen?

Also another vote from me to remove the word 'perceived' from the thread, the inequalities are not perceived they are there.

Jacuzzi_Jackson

Gonzo wrote:

Lord_Griff wrote:

Yoss, you can whinge about it or try and do something.

False dichotomy, see my longpost!

I've not heard it called that before.

Lord_Griff

Why is home ownership important?

Moto70

Lord_Griff wrote:

Why is home ownership important?

Has anybody said 'home ownership'? I've been reading it as not being able to live where you were brought up and where your family and friends live?

I probably see it this way because I rent I suppose...

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