The MCU Spoiler Thread ('free' on Disney+ UK pace) - The Bear and Badger

b0r1s

So is it just 4 episodes? I just assumed it was gonna be 8.

monkey

6 I think. About 40 minutes each.

superflyninja

Agree with the floaty nature of the first two episodes. I thought this would have been fairly tight seeing as its only 6 episodes. I forgot to mention I really liked the new Cap. As in the actor, the actual character is a dick. I still tihnk its pure nonsense that a non superhuman gets to be cap. Wonder if he will get a supersolider dose and turn evil?
Falcon with actual super powers would be cool though.

Diluted Dante

He's almost certainly going to get super serum and turn evil. Probably when they find out whos making the Flag Smashers serum he'll inject himself, and become Captain Fascist.

Is here a good place to talk about a future Young Avengers thing, given that this series seems to be part of setting that up?

monkey

superflyninja wrote:

Agree with the floaty nature of the first two episodes. I thought this would have been fairly tight seeing as its only 6 episodes. I forgot to mention I really liked the new Cap. As in the actor, the actual character is a dick. I still tihnk its pure nonsense that a non superhuman gets to be cap. Wonder if he will get a supersolider dose and turn evil?
Falcon with actual super powers would be cool though.

I think in the comics, it’s moved around a bit exactly what Steve Rogers is. I vaguely remember in the 80s, it was always said that he was peak human, maxed out across all abilities. Same thing as Batman. They’ve probably changed that a dozen times since then (and the comics can have standard humans jumping 20 feet in the air anyway). The MCU have always had him as super human which makes a lot more sense with the things they get him to do. That shield is a ridiculous weapon anyway but it just about hangs together if the guy chucking it around at 100 mph and ricochetting it off two baddies is super powered.

monkey

Apropos of nothing, it’s always annoyed me how light Thor’s hammer looks when he’s mucking around with it. Not the CG, chucking through the air stuff, which is fine. But when he’s just holding it when he’s speaking. It’s clearly polystyrene. They’d have been better off putting some weight into it. They’re probably trying to show how strong Thor is, but all it shows to me is how light the prop is.

tin_robot

Based on the first two episodes alone I got the impression the purpose of Falcon and the Winter Soldier is primarily to set up Falcon as the new Captain America.

As such the tedious "I have lots of debt despite working black ops for the Government" fishing business bits are, I suspect, an attempt to position him as the common working man, and further pin down his Captain credentials. An attempt to sell him to the bits of their fan base that would otherwise bristle at a non-white Captain America.

If that's the motivation then it's a shame, because I think there's a lot of potential in the stuff with Isaiah, the run in with the cops etc for them to do some really interesting stuff with respect to race. Particularly when you consider that Falcon's partnered with a white guy who's spent a decade doing incredibly evil stuff for a bunch of Nazis before coming to his senses. You have an everyman black American, an aged super powered black American who has been abused by the State despite giving his all for his country, and a walking personification of white guilt as a sidekick.

Thatt ought to be an incredibly potent combination with the opportunity for some devastating story telling. Do I think Marvel/Disney will have the balls to go there? Not really - I suspect that what we've had in episode two is about as brave as they'll go, and we'll instead go back to buddy-cop stuff and explosions, with the occasional nod to issues of race, but never enough to alienate middle America. (Who are presumably loving the fact that the ostensible bad guys want "a world without borders".) I really hope I'm wrong though, and they exploit the fertile combination of characters for all they're worth. After all, the alt-right fan base aren't going to be happy no matter what they do, so they might as well do it properly...

g.man

monkey wrote:

superflyninja wrote:

Agree with the floaty nature of the first two episodes. I thought this would have been fairly tight seeing as its only 6 episodes. I forgot to mention I really liked the new Cap. As in the actor, the actual character is a dick. I still tihnk its pure nonsense that a non superhuman gets to be cap. Wonder if he will get a supersolider dose and turn evil? Falcon with actual super powers would be cool though.

I think in the comics, it’s moved around a bit exactly what Steve Rogers is. I vaguely remember in the 80s, it was always said that he was peak human, maxed out across all abilities. Same thing as Batman. They’ve probably changed that a dozen times since then (and the comics can have standard humans jumping 20 feet in the air anyway). The MCU have always had him as super human which makes a lot more sense with the things they get him to do. That shield is a ridiculous weapon anyway but it just about hangs together if the guy chucking it around at 100 mph and ricochetting it off two baddies is super powered.

Yeah, this new Cap doesn't appear to be a super-soldier (yet), but in the truck-top fight scene, he got his ass handed to him, was punched (by a SS) off the top of a speeding truck, went flying into the windscreen of a moving car, and ended up bouncing down the road...and didn't so much as have a scratch on him. He should either be in intensive care, or dead now.

MattyJ

New Cap defo has had the serum. No way could he throw the shield like he did, or withstand those fights, without it. I would imagine he just isn't as good at utilising it.

The whole point of Cap was he was more than just the serum, it was the man behind it which made him who he was. That's why he gave it to Falcon rather than someone who was metahuman. Cap could see in Falcon what being Cap is about.... Now we wait for the show to make that clear to us and Falcon himself.

LivDiv

It will be interesting to see actually how much of an arc Falcon and Bucky have in this.
Feige previously said watching the shows will be essential to understanding the later movies, highlighting Wandavision as a particular example.

Yet if you look back at where the characters were before Wandavision and after Im not sure it was all that essential.

Wanda, gained a suit and a superhero name. She started to understand her powers a bit better maybe but none of her hero qualities went through any changes that wouldn't be easy to understand as shit that happened off camera. Her character again didnt change that much, we left her after the movies with fresh grief, Wandavision ends with her still grieving but managing, again nothing essential there I don't think.

Vision, still dead but with a possibility of coming back because of what he is.
Agatha, would need to be explained if she reappeared anyway.
Pulse lady who got superpowers. Not really fleshed out in Wandavision so would need more time anyway.

There may be hints, subtle call backs, kernels planted but I would be surprised if any of what we saw was essential.

That makes me think there will be nothing essential in F&WS. It will loop back to a non-serum Falcon carrying the shield as the movies left off.

poprock

Yeah, but Disney have to be seen to push the TV shows as essential anyway because that’s gonna drive Disney+ subscriptions.

Spoiler:

LivDiv

Oh for sure, it has just been confirmed for me as marketing talk over real talk.

superflyninja

MattyJ wrote:

The whole point of Cap was he was more than just the serum, it was the man behind it which made him who he was. That's why he gave it to Falcon rather than someone who was metahuman. Cap could see in Falcon what being Cap is about.... Now we wait for the show to make that clear to us and Falcon himself.

I get that, it's like Batman in a way. However Batman works because he fights mostly non enhanced humans. Whereas MCU cap would be routinely fighting superhumans and be nothing but a glorified, easily adult killed grunt. Bucky could snap him in half like that *clicks fingers*
Falcon could barely hold his own in episode 1. I guess this series will show he is the right symbol to have and then magically give him the superpower he needs

poprock

Spoiler: The superpower was BEING A TRUE AMERICAN all along.*

(*Definition of ‘true American’ is subject to change depending on the prevailing audience sentiment and which nation(s) and/or ideologies we wish to champion or vilify at any given time.)

MattyJ

superflyninja wrote:

MattyJ wrote:

The whole point of Cap was he was more than just the serum, it was the man behind it which made him who he was. That's why he gave it to Falcon rather than someone who was metahuman. Cap could see in Falcon what being Cap is about.... Now we wait for the show to make that clear to us and Falcon himself.

I get that, it's like Batman in a way. However Batman works because he fights mostly non enhanced humans. Whereas MCU cap would be routinely fighting superhumans and be nothing but a glorified, easily adult killed grunt. Bucky could snap him in half like that *clicks fingers*
Falcon could barely hold his own in episode 1. I guess this series will show he is the right symbol to have and then magically give him the superpower he needs

Yeah I know what you mean. The serum gives him the ability to go toe to toe, but he would try it anyway just because of who he is.

Minkymu

g.man wrote:

monkey wrote:

superflyninja wrote:

Agree with the floaty nature of the first two episodes. I thought this would have been fairly tight seeing as its only 6 episodes. I forgot to mention I really liked the new Cap. As in the actor, the actual character is a dick. I still tihnk its pure nonsense that a non superhuman gets to be cap. Wonder if he will get a supersolider dose and turn evil? Falcon with actual super powers would be cool though.

I think in the comics, it’s moved around a bit exactly what Steve Rogers is. I vaguely remember in the 80s, it was always said that he was peak human, maxed out across all abilities. Same thing as Batman. They’ve probably changed that a dozen times since then (and the comics can have standard humans jumping 20 feet in the air anyway). The MCU have always had him as super human which makes a lot more sense with the things they get him to do. That shield is a ridiculous weapon anyway but it just about hangs together if the guy chucking it around at 100 mph and ricochetting it off two baddies is super powered.

Yeah, this new Cap doesn't appear to be a super-soldier (yet), but in the truck-top fight scene, he got his ass handed to him, was punched (by a SS) off the top of a speeding truck, went flying into the windscreen of a moving car, and ended up bouncing down the road...and didn't so much as have a scratch on him. He should either be in intensive care, or dead now.

I only punched a car window twice and fucked my hand up......

stellavista

Just started watching episode 2 of Falcon - who made Harry Kane the new Captain America? What a plot twist. Honestly.

LivDiv

Hahaha

mistercrayon

Watching wandavision and I feel like the whole thing could have been a lot shorter.

Also

Spoiler:

They’ve made a good effort but I don’t really understand why Wanda is imagining the form what she is imagining (the content yes)

g.man

Take heart, It does all eventually get explained.

regmcfly

It's a bit of a shite explanation right enough. I really enjoyed the show and that was a bit on the nose (the explanation is in the spoiler crayon, so careful)

Spoiler:

monkey

Spoiler:

Paul the sparky

It's her comfort blanket. Seems like a reasonable enough excuse for the shenanigans to me

LivDiv

Begs the question how would your mutant power based grief series manifest?

Grieving through acting out Playdays, Sharkie and George and eventually Rocko's Modern Life here.

hylian_elf

stellavista wrote:

Just started watching episode 2 of Falcon - who made Harry Kane the new Captain America? What a plot twist. Honestly.

So THAT’S who he reminds me of! Thanks, dude.

Diluted Dante

LivDiv wrote:

Begs the question how would your mutant power based grief series manifest?

Grieving through acting out Playdays, Sharkie and George and eventually Rocko's Modern Life here.

Probably just Buffy.

monkey

Various Spider-man arcs from the early 90s.
And Red Dwarf.

Paul the sparky

LivDiv wrote:

Begs the question how would your mutant power based grief series manifest?

Grieving through acting out Playdays, Sharkie and George and eventually Rocko's Modern Life here.

Videogames, fucking obviously. Music, films, alcohol, food I suppose

EvilRedEye

After Episode 3 of Falcon and the Winter Soldier, I'm still not feeling very convinced. Some of the writing feels a bit dumb and it wasn't quite as action packed this time. It's still perfectly fine but not as enjoyable as it was clearly intended to be.

Minkymu

Highest rated and watched tv show on the planet apparently right now

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