This stuff is all drop in the ocean distraction from the real issues which as I and others have said fall at the feet of nations, governments and big business.

It says I cant have a go at our shitty government for opening a coal mine or approving offshore gas extraction because I have a small dog and couldnt be fucked to rinse out the Flora tub properly once last year.

This is a pointless distraction from the real issues.

The big picture here, is persuading all of us to be a little more considerate, I thought.
Not just the government.

If enough people did cut down on meat, stop buying pets they couldn't afford to offset, travelled less (at least in planes and cars), and recycled, that demand's going to feed back up, because industry will have to wind down on production to make themselves profitable.

I'd argue it makes more sense to sell the changes, rather than chastise people for not making them.

There’s nothing wrong with everybody doing a little better. It’s a noble undertaking. Recycling more, driving less, etc. But without massive systemic change, we’re all just fucked anyway.

@dyna
That was maybe 20 years ago.
That time is over.

The well of individual change has run dry.

I think most people are at the stage of doing what they can and will do voluntarily.

Some might want to do do more but can't, this mainly comes down to money like affording an electric car or owning a property to put solar panels on.

Many could do more but are at their level of what they are willing to do. Not many can say they do everything but we are human and fallible. Some are of course pricks, duled, selfish, drank the myth kool-aid. Either way they probably aren't going to do much more than what they are doing already.

Younger generations tend to be better than the ones that preceded them. I'm better than my parents, they are better than my grandparents. Young people are super switched on and active. We can't really wait for generational cycles though.

Speaking of that.
How much does it cost to keep someone ticking over into their late 80s+.

Has the Independent writer done a study on that or not bothered because Grandad isn't shiting in their garden giving them a grudge against old people.

LivDiv wrote:

Speaking of that. How much does it cost to keep someone ticking over into their late 80s+. Has the Independent writer done a study on that or not bothered because Grandad isn't shiting in their garden giving them a grudge against old people.

You jest, but that's a huge problem, and we're all already aware of the whole dementia tax debacle.
There was an allusion to that issue in the have/have nots thread. It's only slightly more palatable to think of that problem as a question about the true purpose of medicine.

So yes. The Independent probably does have such an article in there somewhere. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The problem with just saying it's a piss in the ocean is to ignore the fact it's all the pisses that are the problem. 

Yes it'd be nice to legislate this but no democratically elected govt is going to do what's needed and even if they did they wouldn't last long enough to put those policies into place. Democracy and climate change will never have a healthy relationship and it's beyond optimistic to assume it will. China has the best shot at it.

I guess it's a valid argument to say fuck it, we've had our time, it's gone South and deservedly so, let a new species take over. Then you can properly embrace the shitstorm coming and go mental.

I'm not trying to lecture anyone - I've had a kid which is just about the worst thing you can do, but to say I'm not going to do this or this because everyone else is doing it is a bullshit argument. One more death is just a piss in the ocean but I wouldn't kill a cat.

The only thing we can do is try and reduce the harm, and the only way to do that is to change our lifestyle a bit. The absolute best thing you can do is to stop eating meat, or going up in a rocket for kicks, but there are plenty others. 

There's a valid argument to say it won't make any difference if I personally do it, but it will if more started making those changes, which they are. It'll actually make more of a difference as the population increases, not less.

I doubt I'd give a fuck tbh if I didn't have a kid, so I can see why people might carry on as normal, but if there's a slight chance it'll make a difference I feel personally I should try a bit, even if it's overly optimistic, because a govt sure as shit isn't going to do it until a dictatorship takes over. Which I presume at some point will happen, but by then it's probably best just to be dead.

And on that cheery note I'm off to buy some stuff and kill the planet a bit more.

People are no different from the yeast producing alcohol in fermentation. They can't stop and keep producing the stuff until it eventually kills them. The epitome of evolution eh?

People can't stop burning stuff and producing CO2 because it would interrupt a deeply established flow of money for big business. Can't have that obviously so bring on the armageddon! Freedom for enterprise and Free market forces; gotta luv it!

Well I for one will only eat corn-fed vegans once the apocolypse comes.

Eat less meat, is it?

Yeah the neolib personal conduct thing is horrendously limited as a means to actually solve the crises. People will choose and consume what is available and easy, it's up to administrative entities to define those spaces with fucking laws. This requires courage in the face of Mammon, which they've been singularly crap at demonstrating thus far.

I'll go vegan and sackloth if literally forced to and not before. I will vote for people who are pushing that, and probably put up with new inconveniences if there is a clear and robust plan of execution developed and described to me.

The Conservative capitalist belief in ‘the market’ having power to solve everything is fundamentally flawed. ‘The market’ is us lot and we can only make choices based on options presented at price points we can afford. We do not have unfettered and complete freedom, our economy is not a ‘free market’.

If you’re reliant on a food bank, you’re eating whatever is offered. Not making a choice to consume ethically.

That would definitely piss me off, and I think they could hit other things before that.

Anyone care to air any thoughts that connect the surplus of CO2 in the Earth's atmosphere, to the deficit currently observed in the British food supply chain?