Someone mentioned a writer reshuffle, iirc the lead writer left after ME2 because they were moved onto The Old Republic (lulrony).

ME2 had references to a dark energy as a force possibly higher than the reapers. This was never fleshed out any further. In my opinion that was for the better.

Gonzo wrote:

That's not what I'm saying at all, but hey.

I'm talking about the non-indoctrination interpretation of the ending. You said it was shit and implied they knew it was shit.

Thats the first time I have noticed the kid playing is THE kid. 

@Little Franklin
He is playing with Shepard's ship, like he is in control, very subtle.

It does smack of fucking up good intentions.

Goodnight

Gonzo I did go to sleep and when I awoke I realised you were right and I was wrong. Please accept my deepest apologies.

Yeah, too many coincidences with the kid to just put it off as 'fan theories' but it appears that they didn't have the confidence to follow it through which is why we get this lopsided thing at the end.

Which isn't to say I hate the end, SciFi has a long history of crapping itself in the final frame and offering a Deus Ex Machina. All the people who say 'MY Shepherd would have fought on!' seem to ingore the fact that your Shepherd is delirious, dying and is presented with a choice from some shiny godchild who takes on the form of a spectre that has haunted his mind for weeks(months?)

My Shepherd may have stood toe to toe with a Reaper prior to that, but she sure as hell hasn't ever been asked to make a choice whilst bleeding to death after a gruelling slog through merry old London town.

But then again, that doesn't excuse the ending at all. It is just a counterpoint to all the people who share the opinion that mah Shep was betta'. It is like the whole 'Mass Relays cause the galaxy to die when the explode' arguement, backed up by a bit of lore and the fact that an Asteroid hitting one in DLC wipes out a lot of the Batarians. You could argue that the nature of the godchild's WHIZZO MACHINE BEAM causes the Relays to go down in a different way that ignores lore because, GUESS WHAT FUCKO, HE BUILT THEM AND HE CAN TAKE 'EM APART.

People ingore these couterpoints though because they felt cheated by the lack of any real choice, without realising that they didn't have a lot of choice in the story at all. Regardless of what you do, you still 'win' in a way, as it is a game. You have to win in a game.

With the subtle hints pointing at indoctrination, the dreamlike nature of the ending in The Crucible and lots of other factors, it points towards an ending that could have been brilliant. Maybe an ending where you take out the Reapers at a great cost, where something HAS to be sacrificed in a similar way to the RGB WHIZZO BEAM MACHINE making you chose from a deck of extremes that doesn't sit well.

We'll never get that ending because the head writer bricked it and came up with an ending that was designed to 'start people talking'. Or, heck, maybe we will with the DLC?

Yeah, that was my take on it too. But some people have massively latched on to a bit of ME Lore, a bit of Lore that doesn't take into account The Crucible because the Crucible is unknown at the point of the Lore being written.

Lore.

Who knows, I just think it is an odd point to get hung up on when there is so much else that isn't great. The Godchild suddenly presents you with a way changing the entire galaxy in seconds, they fucked their own lore up.

I'm not defending what they did with the ending, just explaining that you can wrangle two opinions out of it and claim either as right. The destructive shockwave thing could have been a matter of bad proof reading, having it slip in without thinking. It could have been written months before the ending and then forgotten about completely. Speculate ad infinitum here.

I'd like the indoctrination ending to be the proper one. I genuinely don't even care about the fate of the universe bullcrap, I wanted it to be personal to Shepherd. I certainly didn't want my choices throughout the series to be presented in a series of those fuckawful 'prayer of the many' montages where the Geth hold hands with the Quarians whilse killing Reapers.

I just wanted to conclude the Shep portion of the story. Submit to the will of the Reapers, try and side with TIM or battle through to a victory via death. Something like that I guess.

Gonzo wrote:

including when you mention him to Garrus..

What is it Garrus says then? I didn't spend much time with him. Or I forgot about it.

And reading these lengthy paragraphs I agree with pretty much what you all say. The biggest thing that still bothers me about ME3 is that there were no Krogan squad members. What the fuck.

It's *very* Sci-Fi though.

Tempy wrote:

an odd point to get hung up on when there is so much else that isn't great.

It essentially amounts to whether the universe has been saved or whether its been completely wiped out. That's a reasonably big thing when the mission from the start of the first game has been to save the universe. Although when I first saw it I assumed that everyone had survived the shockwave but was now stranded. 

I also didn't realise that the Normandy was supposed to be in a mass effect jump (because why would it be?). So it made even less sense that they crashed on an unrecognisable planet. 

I thought this was decent - an analysis on why the ending was so bad from a storytelling point of view.

I didn't like Garrus too much in the first game. Second game even less so because he went off and did exactly what I told him not to in the first. If we're talking badasses then Zaeed took the crown for that and all he had was straight monologue war stories. Some of those were the best bits of writing in the game, imo.

Plus Zaeed's voice actor did a fucking awesome job.

Liked him a bit more in ME 3 just because of the history and the lack of anyone else decent. I would have swapped him out in a flash for a Salarian or Krogan though.

Bollockoff wrote:

I didn't like Garrus too much in the first game. Second game even less so because he went off and did exactly what I told him not to in the first.

Oh yeah, forgot about that.
First game "You should do the right thing Garrus, he deserves a fair trial." "You're right Shepherd."
Second game "Hey Shepherd, I just killed 100 people and I need some help killing the rest."

Well yeah, it certainly does. It is just this minor plot point that is mixed up in this whole bag of mixed up plot points. There is worse to focus on, like THE MASSIVE DEUS EX MACHINA (literal) than 'oh but the Mass Relays kill everyone' They pissed their continuinity out of the window waaaay before that bit.

The link you provided is interesting, and he shares the same notion as me - indoctrination was the aim and then something happened and we got the amputated ending.

I still don't think they should change it though and I think it works ok at a casual glance. I was left unsatisfied, but not to the point where i'd plage even a dollar to get it changed. They did so much write that I can ignore the cock up at the end, it does ruin the game for me.