The British Politics Thread
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My understanding was he wanted it to be a possible option, rather than it being definate policy. But yes, you can be in one and not the other.
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This is from the Beeb's transcript of the interview:
AM: You’ve got a reputation as a straight talker and clear answers. There’s one issue on which you won’t give a clear answer. When you’re asked would you like to see us leave the single market, you can’t tell us.
JC: The single market is dependent on membership of the EU. What we’ve said all along is that we want a tariff free trade access to the European market and a partnership with Europe in the future.
AM: But to be absolutely crystal clear, we leave the single European market because we leave the EU?
JC: The two things are inextricably linked.
AM: So we have to leave the single market?
JC: Yes.
AM: Okay, that’s clear.
JC: And so the question is then the kind of trade relationship in the future, and we’ve made it very clear we want tariff free trade access with the European market.
PDF source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/23071701.pdf -
He's both right and wrong.
Yes you can be in the Single Market but not in the EU, like other countries are or try some bespoke thing.
But really the reasons why we wanted to leave the EU are the same reasons we don't want to be in the single market. By "we" I mean the glorious will of the British People of course. -
Except most people these days would take single market membership over immigration controls.
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Nah we want cake and eat it Brexit. Single Market style tariff free access, full immigration controls, no contributions to EU coffers, freedom to do any deals we want anywhere. And pints and florins and bushels and bendy bloody bananas you can buy individually or as a bunch thank you very much.
Oh and £350m for the NHS. -
Yeah it's pointless retaining SM and CU membership outside the EU, unless for instance, you want to stop your country's economy from assploding. They aren't 'dependent on EU membership' in the sense he seems to imply, but maybe he meant that you have to to honour the vote.
It's still Boris Johnson, 'have your cake and eat it' territory. No hard choices, no downsides, just promises of vague outcomes that would be unreachable in practice. -
WorKid wrote:Nah we want cake and eat it Brexit...
I want cake for breakfast too."I didn't get it. BUUUUUUUUUUUT, you fucking do your thing." - Roujin
Ninty Code: SW-7904-0771-0996 -
WorKid wrote:He's both right and wrong. Yes you can be in the Single Market but not in the EU, like other countries are or try some bespoke thing. But really the reasons why we wanted to leave the EU are the same reasons we don't want to be in the single market. By "we" I mean the glorious will of the British People of course.
I think the reasons we wanted to leave are incredibly vague and hard to pin down, but regardless were not asked about in the referendum.
The only thing we need to do is leave the EU. The relationship with the EU after leaving was never put to the electorate, and won't be either. If the one we go for has some of the reasons that some people voted to leave the EU then that doesn't matter.
However, there is no single thing that people can easily point to and say this is the single definitive reason we left, because the question wasn't asked, and the campaign didn't run on anything other than vague statements and appeals to emotion. So unless anyone is prepared to run another referendum on what our relationship with the EU should be, the Government can do anything they like. -
It was about bananas right?
We get differently angled bananas when we leave the EU.
All this talk of markets and immigration by so called experts is stalling tactics preventing us from having bananas at a different range of angles to what the EU allowed.
Old red Corbyn probably wants bananas shaped like sickles and hammers. How are we supposed to be taken seriously with bananas like that? It's time to take back the British bananas from foreign banana growers. -
I agree.
But since we don't know what they are I think it's reasonable to suggest that something that is more or less the EU in all but name is not what people wanted. CU isn't that but SM/EEA more or less is.
Edit : I agree with DD not this madman shouting about bananas. Good job our politicians behaved better. -
Listen, I voted for a bus with numbers on it and I haven't seen a single one of those numbers yet.
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WorKid wrote:I agree.
But since we don't know what they are I think it's reasonable to suggest that something that is more or less the EU in all but name is not what people wanted. CU isn't that but SM/EEA more or less is.
Edit : I agree with DD not this madman shouting about bananas. Good job our politicians behaved better.
I'd say it's reasonable to suggest that more people wanted to remain in the SM than leave it (remainers + leavers who believed that we could just renegotiate freedom of movement and stay in + those who voted leave expecting it to lose anyway), we have no way of knowing who's right. -
As part of the Brexit Punishment Bill that Parliament will be rolling out under PM Monkey, Boris Johnson is to be forced to feature in a reality show where he goes in every grocer, supermarket and convenience store in Britain until he finds a straight banana. If he finds one, we leave the EU. He's not allowed to sleep until he's accomplished his task, he can only eat bananas and is allowed to eat cake only on the condition that he doesn't consume any of it. He should be allowed to drink alcohol as it will make for better tv.
It will end when he finds a straight banana or breaks down in tears, begging forgiveness for his lies. It will be called Boris' British Brussels Banana Bonanza and will be broadcast on channel five. -
WorKid wrote:I agree. But since we don't know what they are I think it's reasonable to suggest that something that is more or less the EU in all but name is not what people wanted. CU isn't that but SM/EEA more or less is. Edit : I agree with DD not this madman shouting about bananas. Good job our politicians behaved better.
They could put out a showreel of the Leave mob saying the words "Norway Option" that would be about 10 minutes long. -
As I recall everyone* on both sides thought the Norway option was some sort of worst of both worlds.
* well a lot anyway I mean I could barely keep up with the insanity. -
No, Norway was held up as an example of someone doing brilliantly outside the EU.
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If you can't stomach Nigel Farage speaking for two minutes, its just him having inconsistent views on the desirability of the Norwegian model. During the referendum he thought it was great.
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Interesting article this, because the Tories see the current rate of unemployment as a flagship achievement...
http://www.businessinsider.com/unemployment-in-the-uk-is-now-so-low-its-in-danger-of-exposing-the-lie-used-to-create-the-numbers-2017-7?IR=T"I didn't get it. BUUUUUUUUUUUT, you fucking do your thing." - Roujin
Ninty Code: SW-7904-0771-0996 -
That's a good article that and a decent reminder of the unemployment stat fiddling that's gone on for decades now. It's good to have an idea of actual numbers, I knew that people were excluded from unemployment figures, I didn't know it was quite that many.
In other news, Labour says it could change* its commitment to hard Brexit if public opinion shifts. I'm not sure how much further it needs to shift seeing as most polls now put remaining in the single market ahead of immigration controls, but there you go:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/labour-could-change-brexit-stance-10871230
* Well, I say change, I mean change again, it seems that until yesterday evening, Labour stated on its website that they were committed to remaining in the single market. -
They've said "access to" the single market in most interviews I've seen.
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Every country in the world has "access" to the single market.
Well, apart from those under sanctions - not sure who that is currently, if anyone.
The issue is terms of access ie tariffs and regulations. -
Diluted Dante wrote:They've said "access to" the single market in most interviews I've seen.
They said differently on their website;
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The second one was what corbyn said at the election. The first seems like an error.
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Labour in their manifesto wrote:We will scrap the Conservatives’ Brexit White Paper and replace it with fresh negotiating priorities that have a strong emphasis on retaining the benefits of the Single Market and the Customs Union – which are essential for maintaining industries, jobs and businesses in Britain. Labour will always put jobs and the economy first.
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So retaining the benefits of, but not actually being members of, the SM and CU. Subtle.
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AKA having cake and eating it.
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It leaves single market access available without being 100 percent tied to actually committing to it [at any cost].
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mistercrayon wrote:[at any cost]
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presumably if member of single market (maybe not access) was the only option in the manifesto and labour won the election the eu could have said: stay in the eu is your only option or it's 1trilllion dollars and then what? They keep wriggle room for that reason I guess.
Who knows. There seems an appetite not to be fully in the eu and maybe that's the reason for the fudge.
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