Doesn't seem fair to compare Russia to anywhere else other than Russia, which it sounds like what these stupid new-right numpties are doing, models aren't interchangable due to the completely different starting points. I'm just trying to compare Russia today to Russia twenty years ago, and in that period under Putin's lead they've made massive improvements to the quality of life for many many of their subjects

The only problem with a totalitarian regime is the dictator themselves, we all think that certain systems could work if people aren't dickheads, but that fails to see that people are dickheads. Not always but enough of the time to fuck shit up and prevent any utopia. Machiavelli said it pretty well 

Machiavelli kinda wrote:

the way man lives is so different from the way he ought, that modelling policy of what should be rather than what exists leads to the politicians downfall

If any political body is holding admiration for totalitarian regimes it's either due to greed or charity, unfortunately it's not difficult to see which is the motivating factor in so much of the west

Nobody is denying what Putin has done for Russia. Noone is denying what the Communist Party has done for the PRC. But is trying to mimic their style of rule the best we can come up with in the west? Are you really willing to give up your freedom of speech Cocko?

Greed is definitely the human trait motivating people, east and west.

That's when Putin will play his 'Trump' card no doubt.
*ahem*

Very few people accumulate wealth for the sake of it. It's almost exclusively a way for them to gain power and leverage.

Not demonizing Putin or Russia at all.
Just analysing stuff as to why Trump is mimicking Putin to a tee in so many regards.
The answer to that is relatively simple: In the eyes of the Western conservative far right Putin has devised the ideal post cold-war, right wing government. The system just works, all you have to do is sacrifice your freedom of speech and free press all for the sake of authority. Rich people benefit the most of course hence those obscenely rich Russians (Party like a Russian?) but the little people won't be left behind. Mostly....
Just don't expect them to be able to climb up the oligarch ladder.

Didn't life expectancy dip hard in Russia for like 20 years.

hunk wrote:

Not demonizing Putin or Russia at all.
Just analysing stuff as to why Trump is mimicking Putin to a tee in so many regards.
The answer to that is: Putin has devised the ideal post cold war Right wing government. The system just works, all you have to do is give up your freedom of speech and free press. Rich people benefit the most of course hence those obscenely rich Russians (Party like a Russian?) but the little people won't be left behind. Mostly....
Just don't expect them to be able to climb up the oligarch ladder.

Average monthly wages fell 9.5% in 2015 and 8% in 2016. Poverty levels have increased from a low of 10% in 2012 to 15% in 2016 so it would appear the little people are being left behind.

GooberTheHat wrote:

Average monthly wages fell 9.5% in 2015 and 8% in 2016. Poverty levels have increased from a low of 10% in 2012 to 15% in 2016 so it would appear the little people are being left behind.

Interesting, would imagine that's tied to global oil prices dropping in recent years, oil is pretty much their biggest export

Those poverty figures increasing could well help to explain why the Ukraine invasion etc, as he aims to divert the publics attention away from falling wealth/living standards

cockbeard wrote:

How do you establish how much he is serving his citizens?

Because Russians nowadays holiday in places other than the Black Sea, the fact that the brain drain is nowhere near as pronounced as it was before the wall came down, and the fact that I don't see images of people queueing round the block for cabbages. Because during the eighties that was what we saw and heard about USSR

We've moved on since the cold war ended.
Russia isn't the communist enemy it once was. It's now a reasonably successful state with a thriving economy run by a conservative, far rightwing government. A shining example of how right wing politics can be implemented. And you can bet your arses the western populist far-right has been paying attention. Which explains Trump's adoration of Putin.

A cynic might think that's as much a marketing exercise to the former Eastern Bloc as a reaction to any genuine or perceived military threat

Russia is unusual in that after the Cold War it managed to keep a lot of wealth in the country. Elsewhere in Eastern Europe, as capitalism replaced communism, previously state owned assets were bought up by western corporations, but Russia didn't managed to keep them out and instead its assets were divided up amongst its own elites. The form of capitalism that emerged is as corrupt and unequal as anywhere else, if not more so, which leaves a lot of people suspicious of the elite and foreign powers, and nostalgic for the Russian nation as a great power. 

Putin then represents a strong man who is traditional and nationalistic, and stands up (apparently) against the elite and foreign influence. The economy doesn't need to be great for him to maintain his approval, because problems are easily blamed on others, while cracking down on civil liberties can be seen as a way to keep out western cultural influences (such as homosexuality).

While the conditions in Russia are unique, and make it easier to maintain this sort of government, the same basic approach is that being applied by Trump, Le Pen, Erdogan etc. That is, fascism.

I liked this: https://medium.com/@Seth_Abramson/listen-up-progressives-heres-how-to-deal-with-a-4chan-alt-right-troll-48594f59a303

Yossarian wrote:

I liked this: https://medium.com/@Seth_Abramson/listen-up-progressives-heres-how-to-deal-with-a-4chan-alt-right-troll-48594f59a303

After reading this three times, I'm still not sure I understand it:

It means knowing that alt-right trolls will often talk about drinking milk because of their claim that African-Americans are genetically predisposed to lactose intolerance; they think, therefore, that by drinking milk publicly, or talking about milk, they will trigger anti-fascists.

Yossarian wrote:

It's endearing how he thinks he can reach those poor confused kids by engaging with them online.

I don't think he's under the illusion that you can reach all of them, but surely it's possible to reach some of them. Even if it isn't, he does suggest other reasons for engaging.

He's an attorney and professor, it's in his nature to engage with young people so I am not surprised. Engaging with the alt right is commendable but I suspect it's not for everyone, certainly not for the impatient. Good read tho and he seems like a decent chap. He actually did some research into the alt right as an internet sub culture, trying to understand their motives and beliefs. That's a good place to start when trying to reach out.

Right, back to my previous points.